Last Minute Pattern Changes

[kontiki]

Just looking for suggestions to improve my technique.

Approaching (H75), had only one radio and used it for flight following thru Class B so didn't have winds. I assumed wind might be the same as departure field approx 30 miles away, they weren't.

During approach, had too much speed so executed a go around. I finally saw the wind indicator, on go-around, near the other threshold. So I decided to change directions for the headwind landing? Is there a slick and safer way to change landing direction once you're in the pattern?



Similar situation, same day returning to home field, (M01 - RWY 17 & 35, R pattern on 17) already cancelled flight following. This time, automated weather is out, so I want to fly over mid field from West and check out the wind sock. Field elevation is 225, (pattern usually around 1200 MSL) and floor of Class B over M01 is 1800 MSL, usually I don't exceed 1500 MSL just to stay clear of class B so I'm kind of close to pattern alt crossing mid field from West.

I see that the winds are out of South.

After mid field crossing, I don't want to circle around the North end of the field to enter the L downwind for 17 because of towers located to NE of the field (the reason for 35's R pattern).

So I circle around the South end of the field and go very wide to cut back for L down wind entry for 35, but the whole time I'm very cognizant that I'm flying opposite the downwind direction, just trying to stay wide just in the event there is someone I can't see or that has no radio.

Was there a better way?

Suggestions appreciated.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Last time I found myself in a similar situation I had announced on CTAF that I was downwind for 08 - then I got a good look at the wind sock and just announced that I was upwind for 26.

 

[poadeleted20]

Approaching (H75), had only one radio and used it for flight following thru Class B so didn't have winds. I assumed wind might be the same as departure field approx 30 miles away, they weren't.

Well, one lesson learned -- winds can differ. But ASOS isn't the only way to get winds. While overflight 500 above TPA is tricky at H75 due to the overlying B-space, look for smoke, or maybe the wavetops on Arkabutla Lake, or anything else which might give a hint of the surface winds near your destination.

During approach, had too much speed so executed a go around.

Good decision.

I finally saw the wind indicator, on go-around, near the other threshold. So I decided to change directions for the headwind landing? Is there a slick and safer way to change landing direction once you're in the pattern?

Not really, but with nobody else in the pattern, it's not a big deal. You could climb up straight ahead, and then head over for the 45-downwind the other way. Or maybe just do a 90/270 back for a straight in. There are a lot of options, and as long as you announce what you're doing and keep your eyes open for other traffic, and maneuver to the pattern side, it's not a big deal.

And much the same for the other situation. Just keep your eyes open, and talk and listen on the radio, and there shouldn't be a problem if you keep your maneuvering on the pattern side.

 

[denverpilot]

And much the same for the other situation. Just keep your eyes open, and talk and listen on the radio, and there shouldn't be a problem if you keep your maneuvering on the pattern side.

There's a boatload of airports around here that (often for frakkin' noise abatement, against the needs of safety) who've moved one of the patterns over to the opposite side... Left traffic one way, right traffic for the other.

It makes me cranky. Staying on the "pattern side" was the whole reason there was a pattern to begin with!

Doing this stupid "let's not fly over the idiots who built their houses up to the airport fence on one side" move to swap one of the patterns to the opposite side of the field, destroys the whole point of the pattern.

If y'all hear about one of your local airports voting to do this, get in their face and explain why they're creating a safety problem worse than the problem they're solving.

 

[poadeleted20]

If y'all hear about one of your local airports voting to do this, get in their face and explain why they're creating a safety problem worse than the problem they're solving.

The place to do this is the local city/county council or zoning board. And AOPA has a lot of things to support you in such activites.

 

[BillTIZ]

We took off in one direction. 20 min later we entered the downwind for the same runway we departed. The dutiful instructor in the back seat while directing the new student in the front seat, is searching the wind sock, the flag "way over there", the winds have shifted.

Instructor now instructs the glider student into a right turn 180 and calls on the radio the change in plans. Now downwind the opposite direction, and lower, directs the student to plan an "aim point" at an intersection halfway down the runway. Cross wind on final for the student to exercise the slip techniques learned at altitude.

Yes, we were in a glider, no option to add power and extend our pattern or fly a full pattern. You do what you need, you announce, and you keep your eyes outside!

 

[nosehair]

It makes me cranky. Staying on the "pattern side" was the whole reason there was a pattern to begin with!

It used to do that to me too. Used to be that all (most) TPs were LEFT Turns, but somewhere along the way, I've seen so many patterns on the same side that I don't even think (assume) that any airport has a STANDARD pattern anymore. Look it up first, and get used to it.

Cranky is in your own mind. Nowhere else.

 

[kontiki]

After giving it some thought, I'm leaning toward the idea that if I have to cross mid field to see a wind sock,

. . and it's a field like M01, with the pattern for both RWYs on the West side, it makes more sense to cross mid field from the East flying to the pattern side.

That way I have an easy entry into either downwind leg.

Crossing same field from the West means I have no choice but to fly opposite the pattern for either runway, once I pick one.

 

[Artiom]

Just looking for suggestions to improve my technique.

Approaching (H75), had only one radio and used it for flight following thru Class B so didn't have winds. I assumed wind might be the same as departure field approx 30 miles away, they weren't.

I'm also flying plane with one radio. When on flight following and approaching destination airport I call FF and tell them I'm leaving frequency to get weather at destination and will report when I'm back on frequency. Usually they approve freq change and ask to report when I'm back. Sometimes controller gets weather for me. I switch to ATIS, get weather and report "back on frequency".

 

[poadeleted20]

I'm also flying plane with one radio. When on flight following and approaching destination airport I call FF and tell them I'm leaving frequency to get weather at destination and will report when I'm back on frequency. Usually they approve freq change and ask to report when I'm back. Sometimes controller gets weather for me. I switch to ATIS, get weather and report "back on frequency".

That's a great idea when weather is available over the radio, but it doesn't help the OP since his destination airport (H75) has no weather reporting of any type.

 

[Artiom]

That's a great idea when weather is available over the radio, but it doesn't help the OP since his destination airport (H75) has no weather reporting of any type.

In this case my tip will not work
I understood from OPs post he was unable to get weather because he has one radio and used it for FF.

 

[poadeleted20]

I understood from OPs post he was unable to get weather because he has one radio and used it for FF.

Yeah, it does sort of read that way, but if you look up the airport, you see it has no weather reporting. In any event, pilots should know that there are lots of ways to determine surface wind without a radio. I always wonder about pilots I hear calling "say your winds and active" on CTAF at an airport with one runway, no traffic, no UNICOM, and no weather system.

 

[denverpilot]

It used to do that to me too. Used to be that all (most) TPs were LEFT Turns, but somewhere along the way, I've seen so many patterns on the same side that I don't even think (assume) that any airport has a STANDARD pattern anymore. Look it up first, and get used to it.

Cranky is in your own mind. Nowhere else.

There's a difference between being used to it and flying it properly...

And thinking the idiot that made the decision to do it to the airport should be punched in the throat, thus... cranky since one will never get the opportunity.

 

[dell30rb]

My home field is 03-21

Lets say I'm landing on rwy 3 and notice a tailwind, so I go around. Would announce "on departure leg for runway 3, closed traffic" Climb out normally, turn crosswind and then turn downwind for 3. Once on downwind for runway 3, announce "XXX Traffic, NXXX is on an Upwind leg for runway 21, Will be executing a midfield crosswind entry into the downwind for 21"

If there is anyone near the airport you could explain a little more.

"NXXX believes the wind is now favoring 21, currently on the upwind leg for 21 and will be executing a midfield crosswind entry into the downwind leg for 21"

^ Now I know you just said runway 21 three times in that last call, but if you are that clear about it, you probably won't have anyone come on the radio with "I thought 3 was the active, what are you doing??!"

 

[poadeleted20]

Lets say I'm landing on rwy 3 and notice a tailwind, so I go around. Would announce "on departure leg for runway 3, closed traffic" Climb out normally, turn crosswind and then turn downwind for 3. Once on downwind for runway 3, announce "XXX Traffic, NXXX is on an Upwind leg for runway 21, Will be executing a midfield crosswind entry into the downwind for 21"

That last part would confuse me. Since the upwind leg is over the runway, not 3/4 mile or so to the side opposite the pattern, you would not be where I'd expect you to be.

 

[dell30rb]

Nothing i've seen has it over the runway. We have a diagram in our flight school similar to this one. Not as far out as the normal downwind leg but its not exactly right over the runway.

If someone pulls on the runway, while you're on final, my instructor taught me to turn right and begin climbing into an 'upwind' leg offset to the right side of the runway, so as to keep traffic in sight. I would be wary of flying an upwind leg right over the runway, because a departing airplane could not see you, and you cannot see them from that position.

 

[poadeleted20]

That depiction is exaggerated. The upwind is flown either directly above, or, if necessary for safety, very slightly* to the side opposite the pattern. It is most definitely not flown as far out as the opposite side downwind or even as far as your picture depicts.

* like just enough that you can look down and see the airplane climbing out below you.

 

[dell30rb]

I agree that the upwind leg is not as far out as the downwind but I don't know why you'd ever fly it right over the runway? Unless you were doing an overhead break.. in which case you are performing a maneuver. If you're in a high wing aircraft flying a short distance offset from the centerline will grant you an unobstructed view of the runway but in a low wing you have to be a decent distance off to one side (at pattern altitude) to keep the wing from blocking your view of the runway. That's a bad place to lose sight of traffic, they can't see what's directly above them and may climb right into you.

its also interesting to note that the AIM describes the downwind and upwind leg as parallel to the runway, while the final and departure legs are described as in line with the runway centerline.

At any rate I know you have much more experience than I, and If you say that there are folks out there flying upwind legs right over the runway, I believe you.

 

[poadeleted20]

I agree that the upwind leg is not as far out as the downwind but I don't know why you'd ever fly it right over the runway?

Because that's how it's meant to be flown.

...but in a low wing you have to be a decent distance off to one side (at pattern altitude) to keep the wing from blocking your view of the runway.

Not really -- you can see ahead of the wing just fine.