landing near airport close to class B - questions ahead of time

blakeyoung

blakeyoung

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Blake
In about one week I am scheduled to fly to an airport very close to class B airspace. I have never flown this close to one before and I may have to enter class B airspace at least briefly on my way in. Although I have a pretty good idea about how this will all go down, I wanted to ask on here first. Better to be prepared.

The airport is Hooks Memorial (KDWH) which is near Bush International Houston (KIAH). I will be flying direct departing from KGTU. This will be a VFR flight and I plan to use Flight Following.

INBOUND TO KDWH:

If I am entering class B airspace around KIAH, I will already be in contact with ATC (Houston Center) by virtue of having Flight Following. So would I still be expected to make a call to ATC explicity asking for permission to enter, or will ATC initiate contact as I approach class B and give me permission? If the former, how far out should I be before calling?

Looking at the map, it also appears I could avoid class B altogether by flying at less than 4000 ft as I enter the 30 NM radius (Point A), then descending below 3000 ft to duck under the next shelf (Point B), then descending below 2000 ft at Point C to duck under the final shelf and then enter class D airspace surrounding KDWH.

OUTBOUND FROM KDWH:

And a similar situation regarding departing KDWH. The ceiling of class D airspace is 2000 ft, after which I will enter class B. After departing from KDWH I would imagine that KDWH tower will hand me off to Houston App/Dep. I am also assuming that I will need to stay below 2000 ft until I make the call to Houston and get permission to ascend past 2000 ft. Or I suppose alternatively I could simply stay below 2000 ft on my course back to KGTU and then ascend slowly enough to remain under the shelf, similar to the approach.


Anyway, I will admit I have some anxiety flying this close to class B, but I don't want that to paralyze me. Knowing what likely to expect on the way in and out would go a long way to soothing my nerves. Any and all advice is appreciated.

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Being on FF does not give you authority to enter class Bravo. If I had to bet (im not from that area) they will likely tell you to keep clear of the bravo by telling you to stay at or below blah blah altitude. But regardless you can ask to enter and they will say your cleared or tell you no remain clear of bravo. When in doubt ask! But Id be on FF and just plan to enter in under 3k then drop to under 2k. Keep your head on a swivel and enjoy it. You will soon realize its a non event. Have fun!
 
Not familiar with what to expect in that area, but in general Bravo is no different than talking to any other controller on FF except that you need to hear those magic words "cleared into Bravo"...or "cleared as requested" before crossing that blue line into that airspace.

Some controllers will hand out Bravo Clearances unsolicited, but typical you need to request them. I was once issued a Bravo Clearance in San Diego and didn't even need it!

Call is as simple as "Approach [or Center], Cessna 12345 request Bravo Clearance to Hooks Memorial" as you get closer within 10 -20 mile. Heard a pilot today request a Bravo Clearance and he was still a good 60-70 miles out from SFO. Could hear the approach controller sigh.

They will then either clear ya and give you some possible restrictions to follow or tell you to remain clear and you have to go with your plan B to duck under the shelves.
 
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Why would you "have to be in class B"? All you have to do is stay low enough and it's like it's not there.
 
One thing I would advise doing is ask ground on departure if they can set up flight following for you on the way out. I've had it given to me leaving MYF in San Diego, which is sandwiched between two huge Bravos. As soon as you're up with departure, I'd ask for clearance into the Bravo.
 
Shawn said:
Not familiar with what to expect in that area, but in general Bravo is no different than talking to any other controller on FF except that you need to hear those magic words "cleared into Bravo"...or "cleared as requested" before crossing that blue line into that airspace.

Some controllers will hand out Bravo Clearances unsolicited, but typical you need to request them. Simple as "Approach [or Center], Cessna 12345 request Bravo Clearance to Hooks Memorial"

They will then either clear ya and give you some possible restrictions to follow or tell you to remain clear and you have to go with your plan B to duck under the shelves.
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I got that when flying VFR into KHND. We were decending into the airport and i was on FF, and the controller came back with N1234 cleared into the bravo airspace, and that was that.
 
blakeyoung said:
I am also assuming that I will need to stay below 2000 ft until I make the call to Houston and get permission to ascend past 2000 ft.
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On departure, you will need to stay under 2000' until you are explicitly "cleared" into Bravo either on the ground or by Departure Contoller
 
I would duck under the Class B shelves, exactly as you describe. 200 ft below the shelf is a good buffer so you won't bust airspace if you get distracted. I'm either flying around or under LAX's Class B all the time.

On the way out, I'd probably climb to 1800', make sure I was clear of the first shelf on my GPS, then climb to a nice 2500' until I was totally clear of Class B.
 
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SoCal RV Flyer said:
I'm either flying around or under LAX's Class B all the time.
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It is funny, often times as new pilots we are taught about the Big Bad Bravo...and first time near Bravo I had the same sentiments as the OP and did not get anywhere near those blue lines. Post PPL my first time though LAX Bravo I was more nervous about not knowing what to expect, but once you experience it and figure it out it is like..."oh, that is all?...what is all the fuss about?".

I learned to always have your requested route ready and your plan B worked out in advance if you are told to remain clear...but except for weather reasons, only pilots that I have ever heard denied in to Bravo are those that were a babbling mess on the radio...oh, and MAKG1's denial story but that involved a plane crashing and shutting down SFO.

Now...especially in So Cal, I will request and take a Bravo Transition any day of the week just to avoid all of the other traffic that is trying to dodge around the Big Bad Bravo! It can be some of the most peaceful flying through busy space!
 
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Houston Bravo is easy to get into. They've cleared me in every time without me even having to ask. I think it helps if you sound sharp on the radio, so practice those calls.

Every time I plan to go near Bravo, it's simple. I plan to stay out of it (unless I need to go to the big Bravo airport, obviously). Then when I get close, the approach controllers will tell me where they want me. Maybe in the Bravo airspace, maybe not, depending on their workload and what traffic is around me. So worst case, if approach is too busy and can't deal with me, I'll just follow my original stay-out-of-Bravo plan. No big deal. But usually they'll tell me where to go and I'll follow their instructions. Again, no biggie.

For your particular approach, getting in without clipping the Bravo should be easy. You could even descend just under 2,000 ft. before you get to the outer Bravo ring so there's zero chance of busting airspace. Doesn't look like any super-tall towers on the charts.

Personally, that's probably how I'd plan it, because I don't want to be staring at my ForeFlight charts right when I'm entering busy airspace. As long as I stay under 2k, it doesn't matter which ring I'm under on my way to Hooks, if that makes sense.
 
Shawn said:
Now...especially in So Cal, I will request and take a Bravo Transition any day of the week just to avoid all of the other traffic that is trying to dodge around the Big Bad Bravo! It can be some of the most peaceful flying through busy space!
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I like the Special Flight Rules VFR transition right over the top of LAX. Nice and orderly....4500' northwest, 3500' southeast, talking to other pilots on the advisory frequency. Anywhere under or in Bravo, I've got all the lights a'blazin'
 
Most of the instructors where I trained put the fear of Bravo into us. I think it was more just to make us aware, but you shouldn't be afraid of it at all. Just don't bust it. If you're flying a cirrus I think there's a new tutorial video on PoA that tells u exactly what to do. But fer realz, don't be afraid, just communicate and get cleared in if u need to. Also, as has been stated, u may not even need to enter The B.
 
Simple. Either remain below the various lower shelf altitudes VFR or call approach for Class B clearance.
 
Also, you're gonna have to descend to get to pattern altitude at KDWH anyway, so being a little lower under the shelves reduces the workload getting the plane stabilized and configured for landing.
 
I am doing my flight training (nearing check ride) at DWH and almost every time I've been on FF they have cleared me into the Bravo without my asking. Once they even vectored me into the Bravo surface area just about 2 miles south of IAH. It is really simple to get in and out of Hooks, especially on FF. You shouldn't have any issues. Like others have said, you'll be under the shelf for TPA inbound. Outbound you may get into the Bravo.
 
Echoing what others have said: Just ask. No unusual maneuvers or evasions, just ask.

Bob Gardner
 
Hi Blake.

My "home" airport is under a Class B shelf. If you stay below the bottom elevation (I like a good buffer, 500' or so) it is just like any other airport. As others have said, it you want to be higher, call Approach 10 miles or so before you get to the outer ring. Around here, Approach will clear you into Bravo without asking. .
 
My home 'drome sits at 4600' and under a 6000 bravo shelf it kinda sucks having to climb to barely above tpa and fly level for a few miles before climbing out, but it's not a huge deal.

I'd just fly below the B unless you decide you want the experience.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Why would you "have to be in class B"? All you have to do is stay low enough and it's like it's not there.
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Likely because it's summer in Houston and only slightly warmer than the surface of the sun. It's nice to stay high until the very last minute to keep the tires from melting before making it to the ramp. :eek:
 
blakeyoung said:
In about one week I am scheduled to fly to an airport very close to class B airspace. I have never flown this close to one before and I may have to enter class B airspace at least briefly on my way in. Although I have a pretty good idea about how this will all go down, I wanted to ask on here first. Better to be prepared.

The airport is Hooks Memorial (KDWH) which is near Bush International Houston (KIAH). I will be flying direct departing from KGTU. This will be a VFR flight and I plan to use Flight Following. (SNIP extra)

Anyway, I will admit I have some anxiety flying this close to class B, but I don't want that to paralyze me. Knowing what likely to expect on the way in and out would go a long way to soothing my nerves. Any and all advice is appreciated.
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I did not read all the responses so pardon me if there are any duplicates.

My experience with Houston Center, Houston Approach and Hooks Tower is that as you approach from the northwest you will get handed off from Center to Approach. You will never need to enter the Class B to make it to Hooks. You will not need to get Class B clearance. You WILL be stepped down to stay below the Class B shelf as they will have airliner traffic overhead downwind, base and extended finals for Bush/KIAH. As you get in range of Hooks from the North-Northwest Approach will hand you off. Hooks tower does a very high volume of training activity and they are sympathetic to student and low time pilots. Get the ATIS after you get handed off to Approach, and expect to be vectored/instructed to enter a 3 mile right base for 17R or Downwind for left turns to base and final on 35L. The students doing closed traffic will be stacked up on the short parallel making opposite turns. There is also an active water runway there. When you exit the main runway midfield there is a hold short line for the approach end of the short parallel. Make a point not to blow through that.

Make time for lunch either coming or going if you can, at the on-field restaurant.
 
KDWH has some unique issues with it's layout to be aware of. Take a very good look at a detailed airport diagram before you get there. Notice that the smaller parallel runway 17L/35R is only 35' wide, which makes it easy to mistake it for a taxiway. You could taxi right across it and not realize it, or someone cleared to take off on 17L on E could taxi past that and onto 17R just in front of you as you are landing. Be aware of you making a mistake and others too, and you'll be fine.
https://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KDWH/APD/AIRPORT+DIAGRAM
 
I would fly as high as I am comfortable with. I would plan on being high enough to make a runway if needed, so if that is in the Class B then so be it.. They will likely clear you into the B without even asking since they know where you will be going.. They may give you an altitude restriction ect..
 
I'd stay out of the B for this, on approach. It's on the near side and is not necessary. 1900 MSL is plenty over Houston, though it may be hot and bumpy, especially late in the afternoon.

On departure, get flight following. If Approach asks for your cruising altitude, you're about to be offered a free B clearance. If there is no airliner traffic overhead, that's a possibility.

Identify landmarks on the ground to locate the B shelves. There appear to be several well separated towns near the route. If you have a GPS or DME, you can identify the shelves by Humble VORTAC. See the Houston FLY chart (back of the TAC). 20 and 30 nm.

Above all, do not DEPEND on a B clearance, as you're not far off the extended centerlines of some of the runways, and of those are in use, you probably aren't getting a clearance there.
 
All great advice.

Blake, I have flown (from GTU or other CTX airports) into Hooks numerous times, VFR & IFR. PM me for a phone number if you want to talk on the phone, I will gladly answer any questions I can and give you my personal experience. It might help to talk to a person instead. (some people still prefer to talk :) )
 
If you're on FF and they know your destination It's possible they will clear you through Bravo without asking. if they don't offer it then I would stay under the shelf. Houston area ATC is VFR friendly. I've never been denied Bravo clearance.
 
Based at IWS (West Houston, due South of Hooks a few minutes) and flown to DWH plenty. It's an easy airport to fly in to... just call Houston and ask if you can transit. More often than not, I get a bravo clearance before I ever ask. Depending on IAH flow, that may pose a problem, and you may need to hold high or come in low. Worst case, just run under the shelf. Many of us spend a lot of time under that Bravo. As others have stated, a PM is welcome if you want any local insight.
 
Indiana_Pilot said:
I would fly as high as I am comfortable with. I would plan on being high enough to make a runway if needed, so if that is in the Class B then so be it.. They will likely clear you into the B without even asking since they know where you will be going.. They may give you an altitude restriction ect..
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My knowledge of the area tells me its UNLIKELY you will be cleared into the Bravo at any significant altitude on his flight profile. There is a reason the Class B floor is down to 2000 feet 20 miles out from KIAH, and 3000 ft 30 miles out... Triple simultaneous parallel approaches. There will be heavy metal flying base legs over the top of Hooks Class D. You can ask. You might get it... but dont count on staying very high even if they do give it (i.e. 2100-2200 ft)...
 
If you do bust the bravo do yourself a favor and drop as low as you can for a while to get off the radar so they can't track you to your destination. This has worked for me. 500 feet above the surface works and is legal.
 
KFD said:
If you do bust the bravo do yourself a favor and drop as low as you can for a while to get off the radar so they can't track you to your destination. This has worked for me. 500 feet above the surface works and is legal.
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Legal over Houston? I really doubt it. 1000 AGL over congested areas.

And if your stunt doesn't work (as is rather likely in a radar environment where a transponder is required), you have provided evidence of intent.
 
KFD... Not sure 500' AGL under the Bravo over Houston would be very pleasant or advisable/legal. (But what do I know, I'm still a student pilot!)
 
KFD said:
If you do bust the bravo do yourself a favor and drop as low as you can for a while to get off the radar so they can't track you to your destination. This has worked for me. 500 feet above the surface works and is legal.
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MAKG1 said:
Legal over Houston? I really doubt it. 1000 AGL over congested areas.

And if your stunt doesn't work (as is rather likely in a radar environment where a transponder is required), you have provided evidence of intent.
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@MAKG1 is right. Plus, I'm pretty sure if it was a brief bust, you could simply potentially CYA by filing a ASRS report after the flight and not hide your mistake by illegal (not to mention unsafe) means.
 
DrewG said:
@MAKG1 is right. Plus, I'm pretty sure if it was a brief bust, you could simply potentially CYA by filing a ASRS report after the flight and not hide your mistake by illegal (not to mention unsafe) means.
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I've filed about a half dozen ASRS reports for bravo busts over the past 25 years. (I never did hear from anybody about any of the busts.)
 
MAKG1 said:
Legal over Houston? I really doubt it. 1000 AGL over congested areas.

And if your stunt doesn't work (as is rather likely in a radar environment where a transponder is required), you have provided evidence of intent.
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Out that far (hooks) it is easy to stay clear of the more obvious congested areas. I wouldn't sweat it. Only way you're going to be busted for being too low is if someone takes a picture with a known landmark and LE can reliably estimate altitude and see your tail number. That is not going to happen even at 500 feet with most of the cameras people have namely their phones.

Drop to 500 the view is better down there anyway. Don't do this near downtown obviously.
 
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