Landing light for a '78 Warrior

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by weilke, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Last night, I landed after dark and noticed that the landing light had stopped working. I assume it is the bulb as they are known for a short life.

    What would be the standard landing light bulb on a 78 model year PA28-161 ?
    Is there some replacement with a slightly longer life expectancy ?
    Is there a legit LED replacement (I have my doubts about the 'standard electrical part' interpretation when it comes to drop-in LED or HID replacments) ?
     
  2. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Teledyne Alphabeam, just put one in my PA28-151. $285 at Aircraft Spruce.
     
  3. Skylane81E

    Skylane81E Final Approach

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    STCed?
     
  4. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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    PMAed
     
  5. Skylane81E

    Skylane81E Final Approach

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    Fair warning, many FSDOs will nix it, despite it's listing as a replacement for the 4509 et al.



    P.S. Don't ***** to me, run it up to the FAA, it's their mess not mine:mad2:
     
  6. poadeleted21

    poadeleted21 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Whatever you do don't put a Q4509 in, no telling what might happen. :)
     
  7. murphey

    murphey Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The Whelen Parmethus is STC. Chief, Spruce, whatever. Easy to install but make sure your A&P ok's the installation and writes it up in the log book.
     
  8. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    So, indirectly, it sounds like what I am looking for is either:
    - a box of 4509 reflector lamps.
    - a Q4509 (quartz ?)
    - a Teledyne Alphabeam (HID ?)
    - wheelen Parmetheus (LED ?)
     
  9. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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  10. rpadula

    rpadula En-Route

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    $285 for a headlight? :yikes: No wonder you're looking for another partner.
     
  11. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    The Whelen LED landing light has a 1000-hour life (and I bet it'll go longer) and draws 2.6 amps @ 14 volts. The old 4509 has a 25-hour life and draws 19 amps at 14 volts.

    40 times the life sounds good to me, and cutting the current by 86% means the switch, breaker, wiring and terminals don't get nearly as hot and will last far longer, and the alternator's job gets easier so that field brushes last longer. The LED bulb has no filament to get shaken to bits by engine and prop vibration, too.

    I put the Whelens in two 172s last year and the guys loved them.

    Dan
     
  12. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You want in Rich? You won't ever have to pay for a landing light replacement. :D

    Also working on replacing the panel bulbs with LED's :wink2:
     
  13. Skylane81E

    Skylane81E Final Approach

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    Worth every penny IMO when the other options are considered
     
  14. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Let me know how that works...
     
  15. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Will do. The cost per LED replacement is .98 - 1.98 depending on the color you choose.
     
  16. focal_plane

    focal_plane Pre-takeoff checklist

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    LEDs do seem to be a nice way to reduce power rqmts. I've just gotten a single panel LED (BA9S-W-120-12V) referred to in another thread to see how the light is distributed and dimming performance. A landing light is in the future too. The 4509's I've dealt with pull about 8 amps. Getting that down to 2.5 or so would be great.
     
  17. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I am especially interested in dim-ability (dimableness? Dimaliciousness? Dim-worthiness?). How well they take to being dimmed.
     
  18. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My early test has been that they seem to dim nicely. I plan on testing a bit more tonight after dark in the hangar. Unfortunately my dimmer rheostat has a bad spot so I don't get a nice linear change. I get a change from turn on to a point then they go out until I close to full on and they come back on.
     
  19. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    Is my sarcasm indicator INOP again? Because I put a Q in and what happened on mine is that it works, it lights up like a charm, it doesn't cost 300 dollars and it's already exceeded its supposed hour life. More gas for me... :)
     
  20. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Which brand of 'Q' do you have, there are a couple of lesser known ones, there is GE and then there is Wheelen. Is the 'Q' a 'standard electrical part' ? From what I could read, the 'Q' is only a problem in installations behind a lens because it can heat the plexi to melting if operated on the ground. In the mighty Warrior, the glass of the reflector is out in the breeze and this should not be an issue.
     
  21. Skylane81E

    Skylane81E Final Approach

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    Folks have been dinged for Q lights by Fed types not considering them standard parts.

    Continue with caution
     
  22. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    There is only one GA plane parked closer to the FAA building on Independence on a regular basis. No shortage of feds, many even fly out of the same field. Thanks for the heads-up. I guess it'll be a box of regular 4509s and a phillips screwdriver then.
     
  23. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I don't know anyone who DOESN'T use the Q4509. I've got three of them, and the ones in the wings NEVER burn out. (No vibration out there, apparently.)

    Of course, the one in the nose doesn't burn out, either -- cuz we never turn it on anymore. :D
     
  24. poadeleted21

    poadeleted21 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You'll run out of luck soon enough... Then POOF there goes your wings.

    I have no idea why but I put a LEGAL 4509 in my plane burned out in 4hrs, I replaced it with an identical one that I leave on all the time in flight (usually accidentally) and it's been burning strong for about 150hrs over the past couple of years.. I'm not sure what good it does those, it puts out no light.
     
  25. Skylane81E

    Skylane81E Final Approach

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    Silly that we have to worry about such a tiny little thing huh? Guess the line has to be drawn somewhere.
     
  26. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It will be interesting to watch the performance of these LED landing lights over time. They all promise extremely long life, but if you look at the actual performance of LEDs in the field, they have fallen far short of their promise.

    Evidence of this is everywhere. Check out all the stoplights that have been converted to LEDs, and count the number of burnt-out "pixels" (or whatever they're called) in the "bulbs". Municipalities are finding that they have to be replaced far more often than predicted.

    My personal experience with solar-powered LED lights has been dismal, although it's hard to say whether it's the LEDs that fail, or the built-in rechargeable batteries. All I know is we've got 'em around our pool at the hotel, and we have replaced all of them -- some of them twice -- in the less-than two years we've been open.

    So, let us know how it goes. I hope it works out as advertised!
     
  27. Skylane81E

    Skylane81E Final Approach

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    I'd be willing to bet the cost of admission that the cost per hour will be at least as good as a normal bulb.

    My intent however is to eventually go HID in the cowl as well as installing a set in the wing tips. Then hook up a flasher and get reported in as a UFO
     
  28. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yeah. Problem with those lamps is that they are readily visible by outside inspection.
    I understand the 'standard electrical part' ruling to mean that you can replace a broken spade connector made by company A with one made by company B without having to worry about the paperwork that travels with it. Replacing a lamp that draws X amp to make Y candela with a Z beamwith with one where X, Y and Z are different is probably not what they had in mind.

    The easy solution would be fore Piper to just put the 'Q' into the maintenance manual or parts manual (or whatever the right piece of paper is).
     
  29. poadeleted21

    poadeleted21 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Like they've done with the Gates Alternator belts? And even the improved Gates HD Belt. :rofl:
     
  30. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I am not familiar with that issue.
     
  31. poadeleted21

    poadeleted21 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Your alternator belt is made by Gates, it's 8-9 bucks from about any parts store. If you get it from Piper the only difference it a felt tip pen (silver I believe :wink2:) written piper part number and about 60 extra bucks. Gates has since come out with an "updated" version of the belt called the HD version that is superior, it's about 15 bucks from your local auto supply shop, it's also illegal to install on your plane unless you want to go to the trouble to get one of these. http://www.piperforum.com/bart/GatesBelt.pdf
     
  32. Anthony

    Anthony Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Instant death! I'd never do that. :wink2:
     
  33. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Thanks for the 'administrator approved data' :goofy:.
     
  34. JohnAJohnson

    JohnAJohnson Cleared for Takeoff

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    GE 4509's for $7.50 here. Makes it hard to economically justify a $300+ LED.
     
  35. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Probably a good idea to have a spare and a screwdriver on board, that way you are not stuck somewhere.

    The landing in the dark on a 2600ft runway, with 90 ft trees off the end and taxiing around the field in the ink poking a flashlight out the window is is not something I wish to repeat.
     
  36. poadeleted21

    poadeleted21 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My "new" one burned out in flight, cloudy night, uncontrolled airport, basic PCL runway lighting for a backwoods MT strip. 3" of ice on the runway. I don't think I've made a landing that good since.
     
  37. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You got me beat with the ice ;)

    Point is, with only one light, the frequent failures are more than an economic issue. Is the knowledge that you have a working light when you flip the switch worth $300 ? Personal choice I guess.
     
  38. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    Agreed.............. That 300 dollar light is looking real good then...:yesnod::yesnod:
     
  39. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Turns out the local branch of North American Plane Accessories had a plain 4509 in stock.
     
  40. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    The Whelen 4509 draws 1.2 amps. I was getting confused with the the 4522, the bigger light. That's the one that draws 19 amps at 14 volts or so.

    The reduction from 8 amps to 1.2 is 85%.

    I bought the LED replacement for the 4509 for $198, in Canada, at Aviall.

    LEDs are here to stay until something better comes along. The burned-out LED elements in some traffic lights and truck/bus taillights are to be expected; quality control on some of this stuff might not be what it should be. On the other hand, the light is still working and doing its job; a single filament in an incandescent is either working or it's not. No warning by gradual failure as in the multi-element LED.

    I use (and most other mechanics do, too) LED flashlights in the shop. The batteries last a long, long time and dropping the thing on the concrete floor does nothing to it at all. I don't know why anyone would buy an incandescent flashlight anymore, yet I still see lots of them on the display racks in the stores. Considering that the incandescent bulb loses at least 75% of the electrical energy as heat instead of useful light, it's time it was obsolete. I'm waiting for affordable LED household bulbs. Don't like those compact fluorescents at all.

    Dan
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012