Lamictal

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So I am a commercial pilot, recently prescribed Lamictal. I have been taking it as prescribed and seems to be working well. What is the protocol for certifying with this medication. I plan on reporting it on my next medical which is in 10 months.
 
Hadn't heard of the drug, so I looked it up.

http://www.drugs.com/lamictal.html

"Lamictal (lamotrigine) is an anti-epileptic medication, also called an anticonvulsant.

Lamictal is used either alone or in combination with other medications to treat epileptic seizures in adults and children. Lamotrigine is also used to delay mood episodes in adults with bipolar disorder (manic depression)."

Heavy duty stuff. And this is the WRONG place to get your answers. You need to talk with your existing AME, or someone who really knows the difficult case system Like Dr. Bruce Chien of Peoria, IL.
 
A search on the AOPA medication database found


Trade Name........FAA Allowed? ....Drug Classification ... Treatment For
Lamictal ..........NOT ALLOWED .. anti epileptic ........... Seizure disorder
lamotrigine
 
IOW, you are medically grounded -- now, and primarily for the underlying condition that drug treats. Whether a Special Issuance is possible is a good question for Bruce, but without an SI, you cannot continue flying as a CP even if you stop taking this medication.
 
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I've learned (and trained) any physician I see to NOT prescribe anything that is new to me until I check with Dr. Bruce. A simple phone call or email solves so many potential problems down the road.

This is not to say that for something serious, I would refuse medical attention, but many times, there are FAA-approved options that are just as effective. The OP makes his/her living as a pilot, I don't. I would not be happy to be grounded but if it comes to my health vs. flying, the cherokee gets sold and I go back to sailing around the local lakes.
 
Both the drug and what it might be prescribed for is a VERY BIG DEAL with the FAA.
There is no way the FAA is going to let you fly with this drug (they're really touchy about psychoactive drugs) and frankly nearly everything it could be prescribed for (epilepsy, bipolar disorders, PTSD, other seizures) is disqualifying on their own.

You need to be working with a very competent AME. Frankly, you should GROUND YOURSELF NOW not wait for ten months.

Frankly, I'd certainly NOT even make a medical application without a consultation with a competent AME if you want to preserve your ability to fly on one of the medical-free options. You're almost sure to be OUTRIGHT denied if you report this and you'd have a long road even if you stop taking it to convince the FAA that you're not disqualified for the condition you were taking it for.

The only psychoactive stuff that there's a protocol for is SSRI's and that's only approved for certain specific types of depression and even then, it's not an easy SI. Fortunately, Dr. Bruce is one of the authors of that protocol, so he's the one to talk to.
 
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I have my dream job and am not going to let a condition I didn't choose to have ruin my career I worked so hard for. I didn't know you couldn't certify on it. I will have to plead ignorance. I am managing my condition well and I don't have epilepsy or seizures or anything. I fly boxes so I don't see what the big deal is. I paid cash for all this treatment anyways
 
flyingron said:
Both the drug and what it might be prescribed for is a VERY BIG DEAL with the FAA. ........


You need to be working with a very competent AME. Frankly, you should GROUND YOURSELF NOW not wait for ten months.

Frankly, I'd certainly NOT even make a medical application without a consultation with a competent AME if you want to preserve your ability to fly on one of the medical-free options. You're almost sure to be OUTRIGHT denied if you report this and you'd have a long road even if you stop taking it to convince the FAA that you're not disqualified for the condition you were taking it for.

The only psychoactive stuff that there's a protocol for is SSRI's and that's only approved for certain specific types of depression and even then, it's not an easy SI. Fortunately, Dr. Bruce is one of the authors of that protocol, so he's the one to talk to.
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I agree with Flying Ron

Unregistered said:
I have my dream job and am not going to let a condition I didn't choose to have ruin my career I worked so hard for. I didn't know you couldn't certify on it. I will have to plead ignorance. I am managing my condition well and I don't have epilepsy or seizures or anything. I fly boxes so I don't see what the big deal is. I paid cash for all this treatment anyways
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One of the uses of Lamactil is as a mood stabilizer and can be used to treat bo-polar disorder or to enhance the effects of anti-depressants. I don't know what your condition is but if its not seizures then I'd suspect its some type of psychiatric issue. The point is if you consult with someone like Dr. Bruce now he may be able to direct you or your physician to another medication to treat your condition if the condition is not absolutely disqualifying.

Sorry to say but feigning ignorance is not going to cut it for you.
 
Unregistered said:
I have my dream job and am not going to let a condition I didn't choose to have ruin my career I worked so hard for. I didn't know you couldn't certify on it. I will have to plead ignorance. I am managing my condition well and I don't have epilepsy or seizures or anything. I fly boxes so I don't see what the big deal is. I paid cash for all this treatment anyways
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Sounds like the attidue of a certain German co pilot. :rolleyes2:

You need to ground yourself and play by the rules. You have a condition that would keep you from flying if the FAA knew about it.
 
Pleading ignorance will not get you off the hook if you are found to have lied on your medical. What you will end up with is having all your certificates pulled.

The drug your taking is DISQUALIFYING NOW no matter WHY you are taking it. You know that you are busting regulations big times using it while flying. There's ZERO way you'd explain this away.

If you talk to Dr. Bruce, I'd avoid any intimation that you would lie to him or the FAA (paying cash not withstanding). He has very little tolerance for people who play those games.
 
This is why no one wants to go to the doctor because trying to get help simply gets you punished for things out of your control. I could have just sat there and said nothing and no one ever would have known. I was told to pay cash for my treatment and I can see why. Every time you go to the doctor it is like a freaking witch hunt. They
 
Unregistered said:
I have my dream job and am not going to let a condition I didn't choose to have ruin my career I worked so hard for. I didn't know you couldn't certify on it. I will have to plead ignorance. I am managing my condition well and I don't have epilepsy or seizures or anything. I fly boxes so I don't see what the big deal is. I paid cash for all this treatment anyways
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You're only flying boxes. Big deal. But you're flying in the same airspace that I am. I have no wish to die or know of friends dying because you have problems flying and there's a mid-air, you get depressed and there's a mid-air, or.....

The medical rules protect everyone else, not merely to p*** you off.
 
Well... do you see seizures or depression as good things to have while flying a plane commercially? I don't like the answers you're getting - it's your dream career and everything, but I (and others and the FAA) think that those conditions aren't suitable for flying.

The situation is unfortunate in all respects and I hope it ends well for you, whichever way it goes.
 
murphey said:
I've learned (and trained) any physician I see to NOT prescribe anything that is new to me until I check with Dr. Bruce. A simple phone call or email solves so many potential problems down the road.

This is not to say that for something serious, I would refuse medical attention, but many times, there are FAA-approved options that are just as effective. The OP makes his/her living as a pilot, I don't. I would not be happy to be grounded but if it comes to my health vs. flying, the cherokee gets sold and I go back to sailing around the local lakes.
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This. On my last ship I was complaining to our doc about how I had been gaining weight due to age/work schedule/lack of sufficient sleep. He offered to prescribe ADHD related meds (apparently effective for weight loss). I told him "no thanks, I'll find a way to hit the gym."
 
Said with tongue in cheek (maybe). If it's ok to self certify with cancer (because it's not mentioned as a specific exclusion), then why can't he self certify on days where he's not taking his medication? After all, if the "self certify" rule is the most important one, (we gotta stop the rampant bureaucracy you know), why don't we just do whatever the he11 we want?

Look, I don't want to share the skies with pilots who violate the rules either, but what's the real difference if this guy self certifies and Tom's friend self certifies?

FWIW, I did not start this thread.
 
retailguy said:
Look, I don't want to share the skies with pilots who violate the rules
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An admirable desire but quite unrealistic. In some areas I've lived, at least a third of the pilots were "not legal" in some way. They didn't have a medical, didn't even have a license, etc. And this doesn't include those who were substance abusers. Throw them into the mix and it was likely about 50%.

These guys are flying in "your sky" every day and yet I don't see little planes regularly falling out of the sky because of it.

Not that I condone it. I don't. I'm just saying that an aviation safety nirvana will never exist in the US because of anything the FAA does. To many renegades out there. This is especially true across the south...or maybe they were just more open about it.

But I still think we're getting trolled!
 
Youse guys crack me up.

Share the skies? I went for a two hour ride the other day and never got within 1500 feet of another airplane. And I probably didn't even see more than half a dozen. What about sharing the roads? 45 minutes this morning were spent within inches of other vehicles - cars and large trucks. Just a single moment of inattention and I could have been wiped out - particularly when the freeways come to a sudden stop near the exits for M39, 696, 8 mile, and M10 where it backs up every day.

Germanwings guy? Yea. Let's all jump up and down and chant "Germanwings, Germanwings, Germinwings" because all of the millions of people who take this sort of medication are just more Germanwings guys waiting to happen. Also, every person from the middle east is a terrorist, and every middle age white guy who voted for Mitt Romney is a card carrying member of the Aryan Brotherhood.

Now, I have my doubts about the O.P. - how could you get to be a commercial pilot and not know exactly what the answer is to the original question - either quit flying or keep your mouth shut. But if we were to assume an element of truth, then, yea, the current system is really working.:rolleyes2: There is only one way to win in the Kobayashi Maru scenario.
 
retailguy said:
Said with tongue in cheek (maybe). If it's ok to self certify with cancer (because it's not mentioned as a specific exclusion), then why can't he self certify on days where he's not taking his medication?
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Because the medication itself is disqualifying. Regardless of the underlying condition, the medication is psychoactive and can cause mood and perception changes that might by themselves lead to errors and/or accidents.

If he gets off the drug, then the conversation can begin about the underlying condition (which the OP has not yet disclosed) , its effects on flying, and whether it can be certified for the medical he needs for his job.

Currently he's not legal to fly anything except Part 103 ultralights, and *maybe* LSA or motorgliders after a frank discussion with his doctor.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Youse guys crack me up.

Share the skies? I went for a two hour ride the other day and never got within 1500 feet of another airplane. And I probably didn't even see more than half a dozen. What about sharing the roads? 45 minutes this morning were spent within inches of other vehicles - cars and large trucks. Just a single moment of inattention and I could have been wiped out - particularly when the freeways come to a sudden stop near the exits for M39, 696, 8 mile, and M10 where it backs up every day.

Germanwings guy? Yea. Let's all jump up and down and chant "Germanwings, Germanwings, Germinwings" because all of the millions of people who take this sort of medication are just more Germanwings guys waiting to happen. Also, every person from the middle east is a terrorist, and every middle age white guy who voted for Mitt Romney is a card carrying member of the Aryan Brotherhood.

Now, I have my doubts about the O.P. - how could you get to be a commercial pilot and not know exactly what the answer is to the original question - either quit flying or keep your mouth shut. But if we were to assume an element of truth, then, yea, the current system is really working.:rolleyes2: There is only one way to win in the Kobayashi Maru scenario.
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I mostly agree, midair collisions are pretty far down on the list of fears related to this post. I *would* however worry about a freight pilot with a seizure or mood disorder on strong psychoactive meds crashing and hurting folks on the ground. A rare possibility, admitted, but presumably that's why the medical certs exist.

The OP really *should* know all of this, and should not be accepting scripts from his doc without finding out beforehand what they are/do and how they will affect his medical. That smells troll-ish.
 
I wouldn't say it's common, but someone has a lot of nerve coming here and saying (even anonymously) that he's flaunting the rules and doesn't give a damn. I suspect Ron is right, given the followup posts, we're being trolled. He seems uninterested in actually taking any advice.

I can count the loss of pilot friends in air crashes on one hand, but in two of the cases it came out after the fact that they were on disqualifying medication at the time. It's not clear in either case how much the medication contributed to the problem but the NTSB listed it as contributing in one case. Both extremely experienced ATPs.
 
Unregistered said:
I have my dream job and am not going to let a condition I didn't choose to have ruin my career I worked so hard for. I didn't know you couldn't certify on it. I will have to plead ignorance. I am managing my condition well and I don't have epilepsy or seizures or anything. I fly boxes so I don't see what the big deal is. I paid cash for all this treatment anyways
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Wow.. Maybe you should think about other people other than yourself? There really IS a reason they disqualify because of the drug.

I totally get not wanting to lose your dream job. but for gosh sakes man - think about YOUR life, YOUR family, and OTHER LIVES around you!! Which clearly you are NOT!

RESPONSIBILITY is an attribute you need to acquire...
 
bullwinkle said:
Because the medication itself is disqualifying. Regardless of the underlying condition, the medication is psychoactive and can cause mood and perception changes that might by themselves lead to errors and/or accidents.

If he gets off the drug, then the conversation can begin about the underlying condition (which the OP has not yet disclosed) , its effects on flying, and whether it can be certified for the medical he needs for his job.

Currently he's not legal to fly anything except Part 103 ultralights, and *maybe* LSA or motorgliders after a frank discussion with his doctor.
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And, everything you said here, applies to cancer. THAT was my point. The same authority that was used to disqualify the drug disqualifies you from flying with a history of cancer.
 
timwinters said:
An admirable desire but quite unrealistic. In some areas I've lived, at least a third of the pilots were "not legal" in some way. They didn't have a medical, didn't even have a license, etc. And this doesn't include those who were substance abusers. Throw them into the mix and it was likely about 50%.

These guys are flying in "your sky" every day and yet I don't see little planes regularly falling out of the sky because of it.

Not that I condone it. I don't. I'm just saying that an aviation safety nirvana will never exist in the US because of anything the FAA does. To many renegades out there. This is especially true across the south...or maybe they were just more open about it.

But I still think we're getting trolled!
Click to expand...

At the end of the day, you either follow the rules or you don't. This guy (if he's being honest), didn't or doesn't, so I don't want to fly with him, or even around him. Period. I don't control the world so I can't enforce that, but, I can still believe that way...
 
retailguy said:
At the end of the day, you either follow the rules or you don't. This guy (if he's being honest), didn't or doesn't, so I don't want to fly with him, or even around him. Period. I don't control the world so I can't enforce that, but, I can still believe that way...
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I concur!
 
retailguy said:
And, everything you said here, applies to cancer. THAT was my point. The same authority that was used to disqualify the drug disqualifies you from flying with a history of cancer.
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A history of cancer may disqualify you, depending on the type, details, and outcome. If you can't figure it out from the FAA's AME Guide yourself, it's your responsibility to consult an AME or RFS for specifics applicable to your case.
 
Ron Levy said:
A history of cancer may disqualify you, depending on the type, details, and outcome. If you can't figure it out from the FAA's AME Guide yourself, it's your responsibility to consult an AME or RFS for specifics applicable to your case.
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Thanks Ron, I wasn't clear. Let me try again.

The same authority that put this drug on the "not to use list", also was used to make certain types of cancer disqualifying UNTIL you follow FAA protocol to get an SI or a standard issuance.

The fact that is "seems" vague to some folks doesn't change the intent of what the FAA did, or change the way they'll enforce it.

I, personally think it's easier to get the SI than to come here and complain as to whether or not it is "required" or "fair". But that's just me, I guess.
 
What is surprising to me is how they will disqualify a whole class of medications even though there is more than one use out side of the primary indication. One good example is Neurotin (gabapentin) which is a seizer med, but it hasn't been used for that in years. Now it is used for nerve pain.......
 
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