KTEX Bonanza 10-6-2020

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by denverpilot, Oct 6, 2020.

  1. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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  2. danhagan

    danhagan Pattern Altitude

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    I've only gotten to fly myself there once, but am there several times a year for the past 25 years. Following the Cones VOR approach inbound and outbound keeps things pretty safe and a highway below you. Am hoping they didn't attempt to fly direct eastbound after take off ... RIP ... very sad ...
     
  3. Nick Pilotte

    Nick Pilotte Pre-Flight

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    They did depart east, and had done so earlier in the day as well. United pilot as well. Other sites describe him as an excellent pilot, yet this seems so preventable.
     
  4. danhagan

    danhagan Pattern Altitude

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    Eastbound is tough for climb gradient AND has a VERY good chance of a severe downdraft. One of the best glider pilots in the region passed away there a few years back and he rode those ridge lines daily. Density altitude is a concern, but improving with the October temps now ... sad deal.
     
  5. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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  6. jrcox19

    jrcox19 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I had at least one class with Costas when I was in college. Sad to see it happen, curious to hear what they determine to be the cause.
     
  7. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    So. Freaking. Preventable. Ugh

    I've been into Telluride, always land and depart west

    What a tragic way for this couple to go
     
  8. Echo419

    Echo419 Filing Flight Plan

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    Unfortunately it looks like a simple case of CFIT. Barring a mechanical issue preventing the plane from climbing faster.
     
  9. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    *this is why I ignore people when they tell me that flying small plane is dangerous
     
  10. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Is there a way to find out what the winds aloft were when it happened?
     
  11. JamesA320

    JamesA320 Pre-Flight

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    RIP Costas you will be missed
     
  12. geezer

    geezer Line Up and Wait

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    "They did depart east, and had done so earlier in the day as well."

    I have done a very limited number of flights in that part of the country. Clear sunny days, the density altitude increases at an amazing rate. What your plane could do at sunrise is quite different from noon.

    I departed Colorado Springs at daybreak in a C 172, eastbound, and the terrain rose about half as fast as I climbed. I joked to my wife about taking the census of the jack rabbits, since we were so low. Later in the day, I would have done another 360 or two before departing toward rising terrain.

    We had arrived a week earlier, late afternoon, at a very high density altitude, trying unsuccessfully to keep above the thermal turbulence.

    So sad when an otherwise skilled pilot comes up short on a flight.
     
  13. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Even if it was down drafts or whatever, unless there were any clouds up there, 99.9% of the reports from up in the rocks are just listed as CFIT. Even if the engine quit.

    Just a pattern I’ve noticed.
     
  14. MountainDude

    MountainDude Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    If he had taken the south (safe) route, it would have added 5-10 min total time to his multi-hour trip. Unbelievable.
     
  15. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    Newlyweds documenting their wedding and the trip online. Already made one trip to the east. Any chance they were intentionally low for the awe factor of the pictures? Or at the least flew that direction to get pictures?
     
  16. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    I lost a friend in the rocks. These things happen when flatlanders fly around rocks. The ones out west scare the willies out of me.
     
  17. KSCessnaDriver

    KSCessnaDriver Pattern Altitude

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    Flatlander airline pilot in a Bonanza, color me shocked they hit the cumulogranite.
     
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  18. Geosync

    Geosync Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yes I wonder how long he had the Bonanza. Airline pilots pushing a new(to them) SEP seem to bring bad habit taking the flight envelope for granted.
     
  19. JustinD

    JustinD Line Up and Wait

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    This was my very best friend for the past 11 years. He lived 5 miles down the road from me that whole time. We used to get together several times per week when we were both off, vacationed together and every thing. Just last week before he left for Colorado we went up and did some formation flying. I can honestly say he was the best pilot I've ever met and one of the greatest guys you could ever wish to know. Just a month ago he did a whole trip out west and visited Telluride with the Bonanza, him and his wife loved it so much they decided to go back to get eloped there.
     
  20. Cricket1

    Cricket1 Pre-Flight

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    Justin-

    I am so sorry for your loss. :(
     
  21. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Damn Justin, I’m sorry man.
     
  22. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    I am so sorry for your loss. Should be a wakeup call to us flatlanders to get training before we venture out into the rocks.
     
  23. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    @JustinD very sorry that you lost such a good friend and that the community lost a wonderful person.
     
  24. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    WOW.. very sorry for your loss man


    ...

    also goes to show how small the aviation community is
     
  25. sarangan

    sarangan Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Having flown in that area quite a bit, I was curious about it and looked at the flight track on google earth. It looks like he flew along the left side of the valley above the city to allow a better view for the passenger, flew as far as he could go and then made a right turn back to lower terrain. My guess is he misjudged the turn radius due to the high density altitude and collided with rising terrain. Earlier in the day it looks like he did another flight at higher altitudes over the peaks. Based on the flight track, it doesn't appear he followed any of the standard practices of crossing the ridges at mountain passes, and approaching the ridges at 45-deg etc.. Most likely he was unfamiliar with mountain flying. Sad to see this happen...

    Actually, my avatar photo is the final approach to runway 9 at TEX.
     

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  26. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    That's a reasonable assessment.. very sad and unfortunate especially because it so easily could have been prevented

    having flown in and out of Telluride in a single engine piston I can't imagine intentionally flying any closer to those ridges and passes than required.. it's a very intimidating granite wall that faces you when you're looking out towards the town from the runway
     
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  27. POA_Newbie

    POA_Newbie Filing Flight Plan

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    Such a sad story :(

    The original for sale video is still up on YouTube if you search for the registration number. While the accident looks like you couldn't survive it....the plane in the ad shows no shoulder harnesses or headrests. If not installed after the sale - I wonder if the NTSB will touch on if they could have made a difference in the survivability of the crash?

    Based on their route of flight....towards the same drainage as Bridal Veil Falls and Ingram Falls....it is very likely there were witnesses to the crash. The last ADS-B return shows them near Ingram Falls.
     
  28. idahoflier

    idahoflier Cleared for Takeoff

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    @JustinD So sorry for the loss of your friends.
     
  29. sarangan

    sarangan Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    I think the airplane went much further up than Ingram Falls, and onto the flat basin above the falls. It has no way out other than a 180 turn. I tried it on Flight Sim, and I was barely able to do the 180 in a C172 without scraping the rocks. See screenshots. Its quite bizarre why he chose to fly into such a corner.

    TEX1.png TEX2.png TEX3.png TEX4.png TEX5.png
     
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  30. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    This is downright horrifying.

    On my last departure from KTEX it was winter, cold, no DA issues, in a turbo charged airplane. I remember thinking on the slopes "damn, I should fly around this place and get some great aerial shots" ... HAHA, yeah right. I departed pretty much straight west and left that type of pleasure flying to the sim.

    PS - nice coordinate steep turn!
     
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  31. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    PPS.. looks like you're at full rich.. does Microsoft still not really support proper leaning technique?
     
  32. sarangan

    sarangan Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Good catch, but mixture doesn't work on FS2020. Its either full rich, or idle cutoff.
     
  33. JustinD

    JustinD Line Up and Wait

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    he had shoulder harnesses AND headrests installed via the appropriate STC’s earlier this year. When he first got the plane that was one of the first things he wanted to do it from a safety standpoint and he did infact have those done and installed.
     
  34. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Hadn’t thought about using the new MSFS as an accident re-creation tool, but it makes sense.

    My mountain flying habits and self-preservation anxiety is banging every alarm just looking at those screenshots.

    You just... can’t do that. That canyon is way too narrow to be where that aircraft is.

    Ugh. But thanks too. That’s impressive. Older sims just don’t have the visuals to trigger those “don’t do that!” feelings in me.

    Those screenshots give me the heebie-jeebies sitting here safely at home in a chair.

    Read elsewhere that a friend of theirs took them for a drive way in the backcountry nearby and they climbed a mountain together.

    Makes me wonder a couple of things...

    Whether the fatal flight was attempting to see the same area from the air...

    And maybe more importantly, that was as I understand it, one of four days at that altitude with the mountain climb on, I think, day three?

    I kinda wonder about mild hypoxia for true flatlanders considering they were from Florida. Impaired judgement / euphoria.

    We’ve had friends from similarly low coastal places visit and taken them for mountain drives to similarly high and higher altitudes. Not a one makes it back to our house without falling asleep on the way down. They’re mildly O2 deprived the entire day. It affects them.

    Not as common but a handful have experienced headaches and early signs of altitude sickness. Plenty of water and rest and all have recovered within a few hours.

    Also bums me out that the guy was really well known, respected as a pilot and instructor by so many, and while it sounds maybe a bit callous, around here when we hear a really young low-timer smacks a mountain with zero mountain training — we just kinda chalk it up to “aww man, another one”. When it’s a high timer who teaches, it just feels worse.

    Same root problem, but seems a bit more sad and senseless.

    There’s no reason to be scared of flying up there. But please let a local CFI show ya some techniques to make that true.

    I just want those screenshots a bit higher and hugging or right over the top of either side’s ridge line... just enough room to turn into the valley and point the nose down significantly at the same time. The classic canyon “out”. You have to leave yourself one, or don’t go in there.

    So frustrating. Just want to yell NO! at my screen in those first screenshots. The rest are just the foregone conclusion of the decision in the first ones.

    Bahhh. Those brought it right home for me. Sitting in the right seat that would be, “You need to turn out NOW. This is not going to work.”

    I’m actually up pacing in my house now typing this.

    Very sorry for the loss to all who knew them. Even my very first instructor was an acquaintance.
     
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  35. Everskyward

    Everskyward Experimenter PoA Supporter

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    Wow, very sorry. RIP.
     
  36. POA_Newbie

    POA_Newbie Filing Flight Plan

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    Thank you for that additional information JustinD - that was very wise of him to add those safety features.

    I'm very sorry for your loss of your long time best friend.
     
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  37. Rooney Freimund

    Rooney Freimund Pre-Flight

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    I am sorry for the loss. The plane looked familiar to me, so I looked in my dream excel workbook and found a screen shot that I took from TAP in Feb of this year. 1964 35S with 7k TT. Asking was $74,999...

    RIP

    upload_2020-10-9_9-25-41.png
    upload_2020-10-9_9-26-16.png
     
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  38. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Unfortunately, as I’m sure you’re well aware, what @sarangan did in the simulator is typical of what inexperienced mountain pilots will do.
     
  39. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Yup. I do. Sigh. That’s why it bugs me. So easy to teach a few tricks where you never end up without an option to get out of that...
     
  40. Fracpilot

    Fracpilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Sad but very true. There’s an ODP off of runway 27. Nothing off of 9 which is a clear indication not to depart from 9.

    Plenty of operators fly in/out of there with Ops limitations for only land on 9 and take off 27. Not sure why he didn’t follow the ODP. At a DA of about 10k MSL, the airplane isn’t going to perform to much more than 500fpm. Sad to see this preventable accident happen. RIP.

    [​IMG]


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