ircphoenix
En-Route
It's okay. It only takes half a mile to take off.
KSEZ - Sedona
- Thread starter ircphoenix
- Start date
It's okay. It only takes half a mile to take off.
denverpilot
Tied Down
That area is on track to set a late snowfall record today. Even more entertaining is it's too warm just downslope a little bit to have much measurable. Big sloppy flakes (like me!) in Parker and out where we live.
Wife is in Cheyenne. It's apparently getting sporty up there. LOL.
Timbeck2
Final Approach
Taking off isn't going to be your problem, climbing at a decent rate is another story.
PeterNSteinmetz
Ejection Handle Pulled
If you like, we are having a fly-in of Cardinals at Cottonwood Municipal, which is just down the valley from Sedona. Could be fun to meet a fellow POA person. Should probably last until 2 or 3.
Cottonwood also tends to have good fuel prices.
CT4ME
Cleared for Takeoff
'could be a bit windy... nothing undoable, just a little mechanical turbulence will make it fun...
http://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/launch/code.cgi?Submit=Go&sta=KSEZ&state=AZ
http://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/launch/code.cgi?Submit=Go&sta=KSEZ&state=AZ
ircphoenix
En-Route
Taking off isn't going to be your problem, climbing at a decent rate is another story.
Take... these stubby wings... and learn to climb again...
Girlfriend has an itinerary booked for us once we land. Assuming she blows that itinerary out of the water with her delaying our departure, we might be able to make that.
That's what I meant about the winds being favorable! Looks like they're going to be pretty calm (hopefully) so I won't get the audible "sink rate" warning from my butt when the downdrafts kick in.
PeterNSteinmetz
Ejection Handle Pulled
Two things about landing at KSEZ that I don't think have been mentioned in this thread yet.
1. Unless the wind favors landing on 21 by more than about 5 kts, people generally land uphill on 03. Then takeoff downhill on 21.
2. As you approach to land, particularly on 03, the shape of the ridgeline produces mild turbulence, sort of a gurgling, on short final. Just fly through it and if ok once over the plateau, go ahead and land.
Have fun. Peter
1. Unless the wind favors landing on 21 by more than about 5 kts, people generally land uphill on 03. Then takeoff downhill on 21.
2. As you approach to land, particularly on 03, the shape of the ridgeline produces mild turbulence, sort of a gurgling, on short final. Just fly through it and if ok once over the plateau, go ahead and land.
Have fun. Peter
rtk11
Pattern Altitude
Let me know how it goes! I have 60 less ponies that you do, but that's an airport I plan to visit.
Oooh, does the Significant Other peruse these forums?
ircphoenix
En-Route
Amazing tips. Thank you!
Let me know how it goes! I have 60 less ponies that you do, but that's an airport I plan to visit.
Oooh, does the Significant Other peruse these forums?
Wilco. And of course she doesn't. Well.. she kinda does. I usually let her know when I'm making fun of her here.
Timbeck2
Final Approach
I'll do a pre-fly for ya tomorrow. Going to Flagstaff and/or Sedona then that Cottonwood thing sounds interesting (fuel prices aren't advertised on SkyVector). I doubt I can make it Saturday.
PeterNSteinmetz
Ejection Handle Pulled
Just so everyone knows. The Cottonwood Cardinal Congregation is running from 8-2 on Saturday. I think some of the folks involved will be down at hangar N2 near the south end on Friday afternoon if people stop by.
To that I'll add: approach a little steep land a little long. That'll help reduce your exposure to the turbulence zone. Plus, you won't have to worry as much about being low once you pass the zone.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
All day today...snow then rain then snow then rain now we're in the snow stage again. No, wait....it's rain again. no it's snow. No, rain.
Dog is going bonkers.
Timbeck2
Final Approach
Specifically, what is your worry? Go early in the morning or late afternoon. I'd be more worried about Flagstaff than Sedona. Flagstaff has trees but I'm going there for breakfast in the morning and see my buddy in the tower.
CC268
Final Approach
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2015
- Messages
- 5,532
- Display Name
Display name:
CC268
I guess I am just overly cautious about flying north to the higher altitude airports in the summer. I took off from Chandler a few weekends ago with my buddy and about 30 gallons of fuel - mid day. It wasn't a big deal, but we sure didn't have much altitude by the time we were at the end of the runway...just slow climb performance I guess. I can't imagine what it would be like at 5000-7000 DA. Negative climb rate probably.
Timbeck2
Final Approach
Valid, but consider Chandler at mid day is a LOT hotter than Sedona. I would like to see 500 fpm every time I climb out but in the summer, I'm lucky to get 200. But 200 fpm is still a climb. My Cherokee is the 150hp version and I've made the trip several times. Just double check your charts in the POH, fly when its cooler and you'll be fine.
ircphoenix
En-Route
Charts say about 440 FPM climb at predicted DA for that day. Guess we'll find out!
Timbeck2
Final Approach
Okay trip report:
It snowed last night in Flagstaff so imagine my surprise when I stepped out of the plane in shorts and a tee shirt. My buddy Marc was working in the tower so we went up and visited with him for a while. Winds were real squirrely and we watched a student pilot almost take out the runway edge lights. Took the 15 minute flight down to Sedona and although the winds aloft were pretty raccoony, runway 3 wasn't bad at all but I did notice what the other pilots were talking about short final so I kept it high and landed long, good tip. The Mesa Grill was a great restaurant so we had breakfast. It was kind of artsy fartsy as my biscuits were green. Everything else was normal. Then we took off an and landed at Cottonwood if nothing else just to say we were there. There was a hanger open near the end with a yellow and white tail dragger but nobody seemed to be around. Then we took off and flew the Verde River all the way back over Horseshoe and Bartlett lakes and then back to Mesa. Now that was the best part as it was like a mini grand canyon tour.
My flight back to Tucson sucked because it was after 2 in the afternoon and the thermals were everywhere. So 6.1 in the log book for today. Now its time for a perfect Manhattan.
It snowed last night in Flagstaff so imagine my surprise when I stepped out of the plane in shorts and a tee shirt. My buddy Marc was working in the tower so we went up and visited with him for a while. Winds were real squirrely and we watched a student pilot almost take out the runway edge lights. Took the 15 minute flight down to Sedona and although the winds aloft were pretty raccoony, runway 3 wasn't bad at all but I did notice what the other pilots were talking about short final so I kept it high and landed long, good tip. The Mesa Grill was a great restaurant so we had breakfast. It was kind of artsy fartsy as my biscuits were green. Everything else was normal. Then we took off an and landed at Cottonwood if nothing else just to say we were there. There was a hanger open near the end with a yellow and white tail dragger but nobody seemed to be around. Then we took off and flew the Verde River all the way back over Horseshoe and Bartlett lakes and then back to Mesa. Now that was the best part as it was like a mini grand canyon tour.
My flight back to Tucson sucked because it was after 2 in the afternoon and the thermals were everywhere. So 6.1 in the log book for today. Now its time for a perfect Manhattan.
Last edited:
ircphoenix
En-Route
Thanks for the pirep man!! Verde River... Good tip for the flight back! How were the temps in Sedona?
Timbeck2
Final Approach
About 20 degrees American less than Flagstaff. I was comfortable in shorts and a tee shirt but cold natured peeps may want to bring a light jacket.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Every time I've been to Flagstaff it's doing that crap. LOL. 100 down in the Valley and freezing my [insert favorite anatomy here] off at Flagstaff. Hahaha.
'Round here we call that mold. LOL.
ircphoenix
En-Route
Alright so we went to Sedona. It was fantastic. And that's from a guy who hates going places and doing things. We got in the air about 30 minutes behind schedule, which wasn't bad. The first two hours out were uneventful. Our route of flight was SLI -> PDZ -> PSP -> PKE -> DRK -> KSEZ. Between SLI and PDZ, you get to overfly Disneyland, which girlfriend thought was super neat. Between PKE and DRK, the only thing to see is some sort of quarry and Lake Havasu. Otherwise there's a lot of nothing for an hour. I've got my little naturally asipirated Cherokee, and we cruised eastward at 9,500 MSL. That kept us out of most of the bumps until the last hour or so of the flight. At which point we entered some light-moderate and that was less than enjoyable. Interestingly enough, despite the airport being located on a mesa, I didn't even see the thing until I was nearly abeam. Probably ducked down to TPA a bit early. After reading tips from the pro-pilots here, I made sure I just stayed high and landed long on runway 03. The approach was entirely uneventful, despite the turbulence.
While there we drove around, visited some things, and saw some stuff. The Enterprise rent-a-car in town will drop your car off at the FBO, and Enterprise people were fantastic. I don't usually have nice things to say about anything, let alone car rental places, but the Sedona location was great. The hotels in the entire area are overpriced, so do some Yelp research if you're staying. I don't have anything particularly glowing to say about where we stayed, other than it would have been a pretty good deal at half the price it actually was. But I can't say anything too negative either, so I won't mention their name at all.
If you want something touristy to go do... Pink Jeep Tours. 10/10 would recommend. We did what was called the "Scenic Rim/Broken Arrow" tour. The Broken Arrow tour was fantastic. There was some real jeepin' that we got to sit and enjoy, which was super fun. The sights were GLORIOUS, and Pink Jeeps was the only place that was allowed to take tours back there. I would NOT recommend the Scenic Rim Tour or anything mentioning "Schnebly Hill Road." It is an old abandoned roadway that is torn up. Bone jarring. Not super enjoyable. Sights were kind of cool, but not worth all the jostling in my opinion. If you're an avid off roader with a nice rig, then it's an area you'd DEFINITELY want to do. You will *probably* break something, so bring a friend's jeep too.
There's the Chapel of the Holy Cross that's worth a visit. Kind of nice architecture. Very small, and lots of people visiting. Parking is available, but you have to be patient and allow people to come and go. There isn't a lot to see once you get to the church, so people aren't generally loitering for hours, which makes for a high turnover of cars. It is a bit of a climb from the very bottom up the road that goes up to the Chapel, but not bad even for someone that lives a sedentary lifestyle like me. The dog found a hot patch of asphalt on the way down and her nose refused to allow her to sniff things in the shady parts of the road on the way down, so I ultimately had to carry her down the hill.
If you have a weird craving for Mexican food, go visit Tortas de Fuego. I really enjoyed my torta till I had some of my girlfriend's carne asada burrito, at which point I became very angry I didn't order the burrito. Both of our meals were fantastic and reasonably priced. Not a tourist trap. Parking sucks though.
The flight back home was the reverse of the flight to Sedona. We took off a little before 1700 local time. 84 degrees F with a density altitude of 7400 feet. Again, remembering information from the great minds here, I remembered to lean for start. Had no issues with flooding despite the higher elevation and higher temps. I also remembered to lean for max power during runup. Thanks you high altitude dwellers! @denverpilot et al. You read a LOT about how the runway at Sedona is sloped. It absolutely is. 03 is mostly uphill and 21 is mostly downhill. What they DON'T tell you is that 21 is slightly uphill for the first 1000-1500 feet (conversely, 03 is slightly downhill for the last 1000-1500 feet). So I mentally prepared myself... being that I was in a 160 hp aircraft, and being that it was a rather high density altitude for my airplane, I gave myself 2000 feet to take off. There was ZERO wind at the time. At around 1500 feet the plane left the runway... then promptly settled with power. I immediately rejected the take off and taxied back to the start of 21. On the next try I held the brakes and went full throttle. Cognizant of the incline at the start of 21, I was more patient about letting the speed build. Second time I got off the runway with no issues. Climbed up to 10,500 MSL (not right away, since again... Cherokee 140) and cruised home. Turb was pretty light despite an airmet Tango and the afternoon departure.
Coming into the LA basin I got to listen to LA Center try to get in touch with a Citation that wasn't responding on the proper frequency or on guard for about 20 minutes. Then when I got into the basin, I got vectored while VFR once for traffic and once for my descent. So those saying that VFR vectors don't happen... I also got forgotten about after one of the vectors and never got own nav... had to ask. Then had to remind the controller that I was going to be switching to advisory. But coming into the basin at sunset was beautiful, the vectors were fun, flying over the port was beautiful, and absolutely KILLING my landing into the home drome was great. I've attached some photos of the trek. The terrain photos don't do Sedona justice.
While there we drove around, visited some things, and saw some stuff. The Enterprise rent-a-car in town will drop your car off at the FBO, and Enterprise people were fantastic. I don't usually have nice things to say about anything, let alone car rental places, but the Sedona location was great. The hotels in the entire area are overpriced, so do some Yelp research if you're staying. I don't have anything particularly glowing to say about where we stayed, other than it would have been a pretty good deal at half the price it actually was. But I can't say anything too negative either, so I won't mention their name at all.
If you want something touristy to go do... Pink Jeep Tours. 10/10 would recommend. We did what was called the "Scenic Rim/Broken Arrow" tour. The Broken Arrow tour was fantastic. There was some real jeepin' that we got to sit and enjoy, which was super fun. The sights were GLORIOUS, and Pink Jeeps was the only place that was allowed to take tours back there. I would NOT recommend the Scenic Rim Tour or anything mentioning "Schnebly Hill Road." It is an old abandoned roadway that is torn up. Bone jarring. Not super enjoyable. Sights were kind of cool, but not worth all the jostling in my opinion. If you're an avid off roader with a nice rig, then it's an area you'd DEFINITELY want to do. You will *probably* break something, so bring a friend's jeep too.
There's the Chapel of the Holy Cross that's worth a visit. Kind of nice architecture. Very small, and lots of people visiting. Parking is available, but you have to be patient and allow people to come and go. There isn't a lot to see once you get to the church, so people aren't generally loitering for hours, which makes for a high turnover of cars. It is a bit of a climb from the very bottom up the road that goes up to the Chapel, but not bad even for someone that lives a sedentary lifestyle like me. The dog found a hot patch of asphalt on the way down and her nose refused to allow her to sniff things in the shady parts of the road on the way down, so I ultimately had to carry her down the hill.
If you have a weird craving for Mexican food, go visit Tortas de Fuego. I really enjoyed my torta till I had some of my girlfriend's carne asada burrito, at which point I became very angry I didn't order the burrito. Both of our meals were fantastic and reasonably priced. Not a tourist trap. Parking sucks though.
The flight back home was the reverse of the flight to Sedona. We took off a little before 1700 local time. 84 degrees F with a density altitude of 7400 feet. Again, remembering information from the great minds here, I remembered to lean for start. Had no issues with flooding despite the higher elevation and higher temps. I also remembered to lean for max power during runup. Thanks you high altitude dwellers! @denverpilot et al. You read a LOT about how the runway at Sedona is sloped. It absolutely is. 03 is mostly uphill and 21 is mostly downhill. What they DON'T tell you is that 21 is slightly uphill for the first 1000-1500 feet (conversely, 03 is slightly downhill for the last 1000-1500 feet). So I mentally prepared myself... being that I was in a 160 hp aircraft, and being that it was a rather high density altitude for my airplane, I gave myself 2000 feet to take off. There was ZERO wind at the time. At around 1500 feet the plane left the runway... then promptly settled with power. I immediately rejected the take off and taxied back to the start of 21. On the next try I held the brakes and went full throttle. Cognizant of the incline at the start of 21, I was more patient about letting the speed build. Second time I got off the runway with no issues. Climbed up to 10,500 MSL (not right away, since again... Cherokee 140) and cruised home. Turb was pretty light despite an airmet Tango and the afternoon departure.
Coming into the LA basin I got to listen to LA Center try to get in touch with a Citation that wasn't responding on the proper frequency or on guard for about 20 minutes. Then when I got into the basin, I got vectored while VFR once for traffic and once for my descent. So those saying that VFR vectors don't happen... I also got forgotten about after one of the vectors and never got own nav... had to ask. Then had to remind the controller that I was going to be switching to advisory. But coming into the basin at sunset was beautiful, the vectors were fun, flying over the port was beautiful, and absolutely KILLING my landing into the home drome was great. I've attached some photos of the trek. The terrain photos don't do Sedona justice.
Attachments
CT4ME
Cleared for Takeoff
Sound like a great trip!... Another really fun thing to do in Sedona is the Segway tour. There are several different options, all fun. Sometimes there are Groupons, that make it cheaper. Last time, we took the "sunset" tour.
https://www.sedonasegway.com/
https://www.sedonasegway.com/
ircphoenix
En-Route
We're 100% going back at some point, so we'll look into that. Thanks for the tip!
You know, KGCN is only a short 65nm hop away from KSEZ.
Tantalum
Final Approach
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2017
- Messages
- 9,228
- Display Name
Display name:
San_Diego_Pilot
Thanks @ircphoenix for the writeup! Sedona is on my list of places to fly into as well, glad you had a good trip and I'll reference this thread when we eventually make it out there too
by the way
by the way
I read that as "climbing at a deScent rate is another story"... I guess that's apropos!
ircphoenix
En-Route
He wasn't wrong either. Portions of my climb were at -500 FPM. I found myself being a glider pilot and hunting for clouds to find the updrafts at some points. That was the most challenging aspect of the flight home. The up and down drafts were pretty substantial, even though there wasn't a ton of turbulence.
ircphoenix
En-Route
Not a bad idea. I already have the Grand Canyon charts loaded in my EFB.
MetalCloud
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2015
- Messages
- 739
- Display Name
Display name:
MetalCloud
The Canyon tour is amazing! I've done it twice. Just did Sedona recently.... only full stop taxi back and keep moving.... such an amazing place and amazing approach. Excellent write up on KSEZ.
CC268
Final Approach
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2015
- Messages
- 5,532
- Display Name
Display name:
CC268
Was it just you in the plane or were you flying with anyone? How much fuel taking off from flagstaff?
Timbeck2
Final Approach
I was with another guy, unlike the hottie my friend had with him. We were at the tabs so 36 gallons but like I said, it was in the 30's so no problems.
ircphoenix
En-Route
Now now... I'm sure your guy friend is pretty too.
CC268
Final Approach
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2015
- Messages
- 5,532
- Display Name
Display name:
CC268
Nice...I think my Cherokee is a lot more capable than I think...I gotta fly up to Sedona and Flag some day
Clark1961
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 17,737
- Display Name
Display name:
Display name:
The other trick is look for areas that are likely to radiate heat. Parking lots and rock formations are good. Rivers and ponds are very bad usually.
Timbeck2
Final Approach
Now now... I'm sure your guy friend is pretty too.
Well yeah, he is pretty dreamy but at 6'4" and 215 lbs, I'd rather have someone a little lighter for those altitudes.
Speaking of pushing boundaries - I successfully landed my airplane in an 18 gusting 25 kt direct crosswind yesterday. I had a non-pilot friend with me and although it wasn't pretty and far from a greaser, he told me that it looked as if I'd done that every day. I'm sure he was just being nice and still giddy about remaining bi-pedal. I didn't have the heart to tell him that was the worst cross wind I'd ever landed in. I don't know what is wrong with me but I'm more nervous about those things when I'm by myself rather than with a passenger. His weight definitely helped.
ircphoenix
En-Route
Where was that? I've had one occasion during training where I ran out of rudder. No thanks.
Timbeck2
Final Approach
Tucson. (KTUS) I would have asked for runway 21 but someone was on it with a problem so I landed 11. I still had rudder left but not much.