KMDD: Kingair v house this am

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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west Texas
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Display name:
Dave Taylor
Only minor injuries despite toasted house, totaled a/c. Pretty amazing. Early report says "engine trouble", for what that is worth.

Local wx is unusually low today:
KMDD 021435Z AUTO 03009KT 1 3/4SM BR OVC006 01/01 A3032 RMK AO2 T00130005
KMDD 021415Z AUTO 03009KT 1 3/4SM BR SCT003 OVC008 01/01 A3031 RMK AO2 T00120005
KMDD 021355Z AUTO 03010KT 3SM -RA SCT006 BKN011 OVC016 01/00 A3032 RMK AO2 T00120003
KMDD 021335Z AUTO 02009KT 4SM -RA BKN008 OVC013 01/00 A3032 RMK AO2 T00130004
 
How did you hear about this so soon? KMDD. Has houses awful near to the runways, always hated that about going in there
 
The owner of the house the plane crashed into, 81-year-old Estela Trowbridge, was able to get out of her house before the plane hit.
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huh? How'd she manage that?
 
Unofficial reports from first responders - King Air on single-engine approach with one dead/feathered, we were at minimums this morning in Midland, just barely above that now. Speculation is a missed approach, full power on single engine at or below Vmc, rolled it over and went in.
 
airguy said:
Unofficial reports from first responders - King Air on single-engine approach with one dead/feathered, we were at minimums this morning in Midland, just barely above that now. Speculation is a missed approach, full power on single engine at or below Vmc, rolled it over and went in.
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Geesh! I hope that's not the case. Just had a big discussion about making single engine missed approaches in a twin. It's very doable in a KA unless there are other factors.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Geesh! I hope that's not the case. Just had a big discussion about making single engine missed approaches in a twin. It's very doable in a KA unless there are other factors.

Best,

Dave
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Yup - it's quite possible to do them, IF the pilot is up on the procedure and pays attention. The margins with one feathered are much smaller and the airplane will not tolerate sloppy flying in that condition. I know a lot of twin pilots that haven't shot a practice single-engine approach since they got their twin rating. The odds of them pulling it out successfully if they had to are not nearly as good as if they practiced regularly.

This is all speculation, of course. We won't really know until the NTSB releases it's report, or the pilot gives a voluntary statement.
 
I just scratch my head when folks say things like that. I do several zero thrust single engine approaches a year to practice. I do a few single engine missed approaches in the plane. I also do 'em (single engine approches) every year at SIMCOM. We generally don't do single engine misseds there, but do on occasion.

Best,

Dave
 
rolled it over and only a broken arm?? Wow. Time for that lottery ticket.

Do KAs have autofeather?
 
I wonder why he would choose KMDD over KMAF, just a few miles apart and KMAF would have been far more forgiving.
 
IF this was an engine failure as reported,....I was thinking the same, less congestion, longer runways, ils vs np apprch. But we don't know when the supposed failure occurred, maybe he was already on the approach. Anyone have access to the tapes? Maybe there were any of a dozen mitigating factors that we have no idea of.

Amazing no deaths; I cannot see very much of the airplane in those photos, it appears immolated.
 
A high percentage of experienced pilots crash during the first V1 cut or S/E miss during recurrent training. It's almost a cinch that they will crash if the autofeather is out of service.

Dave Siciliano said:
Geesh! I hope that's not the case. Just had a big discussion about making single engine missed approaches in a twin. It's very doable in a KA unless there are other factors.

Best,

Dave
Click to expand...
 
He was apparently going there to pick up folks to take to Cisco.
 
I hope I didn't lend to the opinion that this could have happened to me; it could have. I was responding to the comment that folks never practiced them. At least I've tried to do that. Many instructors seem to teach to never go around single engine in my 58P. That's great if one gets down on the approach where they need to be and are ahead of the plane; if not, things like this happen. Still, I've done single engine go-arounds; they are doable, but one really has to be ahead of the plane and the terrain has to be accommodative.

Let's see what the facts are before going astray too far.

Best,

Dave
 
Doesn't the ka have negative torque sensors, performing a function to autofeather? Tris?
 
Dave Siciliano said:
I hope I didn't lend to the opinion that this could have happened to me; it could have. I was responding to the comment that folks never practiced them. At least I've tried to do that. Many instructors seem to teach to never go around single engine in my 58P. That's great if one gets down on the approach where they need to be and are ahead of the plane; if not, things like this happen. Still, I've done single engine go-arounds; they are doable, but one really has to be ahead of the plane and the terrain has to be accommodative.
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We always did single-engine go-arounds in the King Air at school, in fact it was part of every 135 checkride. Most of the King Airs I flew had autofeather although there was an old E90 that didn't.

I never tried a single-engine go around in the C-320 because there was no going around, at least not in Denver.
 
Everskyward said:
We always did single-engine go-arounds in the King Air at school, in fact it was part of every 135 checkride. Most of the King Airs I flew had autofeather although there was an old E90 that didn't.

I never tried a single-engine go around in the C-320 because there was no going around, at least not in Denver.
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I just had a big discussion on this on another board and a LOT of very experienced pilots and instructors said they strongly recommend not to go around in a piston twin. Have to say, SIMCOM stated that too. Land on a taxiway, grass, whatever. They just say it takes a very high skill level and most pilots aren't disciplined enough to do it successfully. One CFI who I respect said he thought only military or former military folks and aerobatic pilots had the skill level.

Just reporting. I still practice them and have done them many times. I can see where if one gets too low and slow it shouldn't be attempted--that's why we commit to land at some point on arrival normally when we slow below blue line.

Best,

Dave
 
Pratt-equipped King Airs display torque in pounds. Auto-ignition activates as torque decreases through 400#, autofeather activates below 200#, if the other engine is set for more than 90% torque.
Let'sgoflying! said:
Doesn't the ka have negative torque sensors, performing a function to autofeather? Tris?
Click to expand...
 
Dave Siciliano said:
I just scratch my head when folks say things like that. I do several zero thrust single engine approaches a year to practice. I do a few single engine missed approaches in the plane. I also do 'em (single engine approches) every year at SIMCOM. We generally don't do single engine misseds there, but do on occasion.
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I'm the same. Keeping proficient with these things may save you. Of course, should it actually happen to me at the wrong time, who knows.

Dave Siciliano said:
I hope I didn't lend to the opinion that this could have happened to me; it could have. I was responding to the comment that folks never practiced them. At least I've tried to do that. Many instructors seem to teach to never go around single engine in my 58P. That's great if one gets down on the approach where they need to be and are ahead of the plane; if not, things like this happen. Still, I've done single engine go-arounds; they are doable, but one really has to be ahead of the plane and the terrain has to be accommodative.
Click to expand...

If I were OEI in actual IMC in any of the piston twins I fly, I would plan to find a straight-in approach (preferably an ILS if one was available within range) and intend on flying it in. None of them, even at sea level, have good enough climb performance while OEI with a lot of the approaches in this part of the country for me to be comfortable with terrain. The 310 would have the best shot out of the bunch simply because it has the Colemill conversion, but I still wouldn't want to try it.

Still, I practice it because it's good to practice, and helps keep my skill level up. It's also a good reminder of what the airplane's limitations are (I'll do routine in-air shutdowns and restarts for the same reason).

Were an engine to quit on me at an inopportune time (or I just screwed up), I may still end up a smoking hole in the ground. Hence why I remain vigilant.
 
My mechanic called me about it saying that there was going to be a nice multi I could get cheap soon if I want one.... Wonder what happened. Might call the chief pilot for the school and ask.
 
The original accident in this thread was due to ice... Apparently they got vectored around in it and went down because of it. We have a safety meeting tomorrow night I'll ask the FAA guy for more info
 
Today's was a Baron...

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N275D

http://www.kwes.com/story/16333545/plane-crashes-in-midland

16333545_BG3.JPG
 
Actually, they got the wing right, but the plane wrong....looks like an upside down Skyhawk.
 
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