KLRO crash update....No CFI Certificate

Thumper

Thumper

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The preliminary NTSB report has been issued concerning the crash at Mt. Pleasant, SC. (KLRO) on August 14, 2014, which killed a student and CFI. The original thread is here.

With concern to CFI Graham Borland, the NTSB preliminary report states "According to Federal Aviation Administration Records examined during NTSB's investigation into the accident, Borland held a commercial pilot certificate, but did not have a flight instructor certificate."

This link is to the TV coverage on the NTSB preliminary report.
 
We all know the FAA has no right to require a pilot or flight instructor to be properly certificated. This is a free country after all. :rolleyes:
 
This may surprise the living hell out of you all, but it is NOT contrary to the FARs to give flight instruction without holding a flight instructor certificate. What IS contrary is signing a logbook as giving flight instruction and then putting "CFI" after your signature/number.

You can TELL somebody that you are a CFI and then they have a civil action against you for fraud if you accept money as a CFI, but until you do the magic CFI signature WITH the CFI as part of the number, you have not violated the FARs.

Nothing I've read so far tells me that the signature rule has been violated.

Jim
CFI
 
There could have been an assumption made that the pilot in question was a CFI,could have been to friends one giving the other some pointers.
 
RotorAndWing said:
We all know the FAA has no right to require a pilot or flight instructor to be properly certificated. This is a free country after all. :rolleyes:
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Technically we only have the OP's assumption in the original thread that this was an instructional flight and that the "CFI" actually claimed to be certified as an instructor. It's (remotely) possible that the pilot never claimed to be a CFI and was simply acting PIC and providing informal instruction to the "student". AFaIK there's nothing in CFR 14 that says any pilot can't teach someone how to fly as long as they don't sign any "training given" etc. entries in someone's logbook.

That said, it is more likely the pilot in question was pretending to be a certified instructor. But you'd think the flight school would have confirmed that before taking him on as a CFI.
 
gismo said:
Technically we only have the OP's assumption in the original thread that this was an instructional flight and that the "CFI" actually claimed to be certified as an instructor. It's (remotely) possible that the pilot never claimed to be a CFI and was simply acting PIC and providing informal instruction to the "student". AFaIK there's nothing in CFR 14 that says any pilot can't teach someone how to fly as long as they don't sign any "training given" etc. entries in someone's logbook.

That said, it is more likely the pilot in question was pretending to be a certified instructor. But you'd think the flight school would have confirmed that before taking him on as a CFI.
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I should have put this before my post:
sarcasm_zps7eb60073.gif
 
RotorAndWing said:
I should have put this before my post:
sarcasm_zps7eb60073.gif
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Maybe but I had no trouble recognizing your intent :D, I just wanted to point out that there's a (admittedly slim) chance that the pilot wasn't actually claiming to be a CFI.
 
This "CFI" was a new hire by Coastal Aviation. I can't believe they didn't vet him more during the hiring process. He was there for 2 weeks so I'm sure he went up with quite a few other students.
 
How many of us check out our CFI credentials?

I never have, and have flown with a bunch of CFI's over the years.

Perhaps I should.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
RalphInCA said:
How many of us check out our CFI credentials?

I never have, and have flown with a bunch of CFI's over the years.

Perhaps I should.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

My CFI alerted me to the latest news. I jokingly asked to see his credentials next time I saw him. He said he really wanted to show them to me to make himself feel better
 
I know people here don't want to believe that pilots misrepresent themselves (ratings, hours, experience, etc) but it happens more often than one thinks.

And I know you can get posters into keyboard tourettes by mentioning ramp checks, but on occasion ramp checks do uncover some of these types.
 
48dodge said:
My CFI alerted me to the latest news. I jokingly asked to see his credentials next time I saw him. He said he really wanted to show them to me to make himself feel better
Click to expand...

I've run a few through the database.
 
hook_dupin said:
I wish there was a way to see how good they are... pass rate or number of hours or something.
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Pretty trivial...ask for a free ground school lesson up front. Doesn't cost anything except for your time and the CFI time. If (s)he just doesn't click with you on the ground, the odds of getting better in the airplane is just about zero.

Jim
 
The FBO I work with has copies of all certificates and medicals, and our scheduling software tracks expiration dates.
 
LDJones said:
The FBO I work with has copies of all certificates and medicals, and our scheduling software tracks expiration dates.
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I suppose a bogus CFI could create a fake instructor's cert but that would take the fraud to a much higher level with worse consequences if caught (had he lived).
 
weirdjim said:
Pretty trivial...ask for a free ground school lesson up front. Doesn't cost anything except for your time and the CFI time. If (s)he just doesn't click with you on the ground, the odds of getting better in the airplane is just about zero.

Jim
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Certainly a good tip. I'm a CFI on the side myself. Sometimes, I view the discovery rides as two-way blind dates....
 
weirdjim said:
This may surprise the living hell out of you all, but it is NOT contrary to the FARs to give flight instruction without holding a flight instructor certificate. What IS contrary is signing a logbook as giving flight instruction and then putting "CFI" after your signature/number.

You can TELL somebody that you are a CFI and then they have a civil action against you for fraud if you accept money as a CFI, but until you do the magic CFI signature WITH the CFI as part of the number, you have not violated the FARs.

Nothing I've read so far tells me that the signature rule has been violated.

Jim
CFI
Click to expand...

Wrong. Perched in the right seat giving flight instruction without certification to instruct is derilict. Even if you want to quibble over the FAR, how about the fatalities that result when the 'student' stalls the plane and the 'not CFI' has no clue how to save them both...

It's even a bad idea to try to land the plane in the right seat witout being checked out for that first...let alone assuming the full responsibility to control the plane from the right seat when things go sideways.
 
CTLSi said:
Wrong. Perched in the right seat giving flight instruction without certification to instruct is derilict. Even if you want to quibble over the FAR, how about the fatalities that result when the 'student' stalls the plane and the 'not CFI' has no clue how to save them both...

It's even a bad idea to try to land the plane in the right seat witout being checked out for that first...let alone assuming the full responsibility to control the plane from the right seat when things go sideways.
Click to expand...
Checked out, checked out, checked out. Was going to go flying today got all preflighted then realized I've never flown in this pair of sneakers so I scrubbed the flight. Going to go up with a CFI and get checked out with my new shoes.:rolleyes2::lol::rofl:
Get a check out. Check out, check out. Yeah check outs
 
CTLSi said:
Wrong.

Bull$#it. The FAR gives ANY pilot the right to instruct without a license, plain and simple.

Perched in the right seat giving flight instruction without certification to instruct is derilict.

Most instructors know how to spell derelict. Aside from that, I've taken a few dozen hours of "instruction" time from non-certificated instructors that have taught me a lot.

Even if you want to quibble over the FAR,

T'ain't a quibble. It is plainly stated and printed.

how about the fatalities that result when the 'student' stalls the plane and the 'not CFI' has no clue how to save them both...

Like no private/commercial pilot has EVER been taught how to recover from a stall? STRAW MAN, buddy, try again.

It's even a bad idea to try to land the plane in the right seat witout being checked out for that first...let alone assuming the full responsibility to control the plane from the right seat when things go sideways.

Go live in your little dreamworld. I don't think any reasonable person would go sit in the right seat without a competent observer (NOT A CHECK) pilot in the left front seat. After I felt comfy over there I flew the airplane for a couple of hundred hours right-seat before I started to go for my CFI.
Click to expand...

...

Try again.

Jim
 
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