Line Up and Wait
- Nov 9, 2021
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We need a better class of troll.
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You haven't practiced spin avoidance/recovery, and departure stalls?
No one's saying shut off the engine at 500 feet.
While I get your point, it’s equally fair to say a partial loss of power (down to idle power) is also an emergency yet we practice that often.
I personally think there’s merit in doing this, under the right circumstances. For example, it seems good for a CFI to intentionally do it once with a student, planned, at altitude and near a good runway, to show them early on that the plane won’t fall out of the sky if the engine quits; it would better prepare them for such a situation by reducing the panic, IMHO. I could also see doing it with a spouse (if they’re willing!) for the same reason.
And while others have talked about shutting off a fuel valve, I personally hesitate to do that. That introduces another variable/failure mode that doesn’t add benefit, in my opinion.
Also, I personally pull it to idle first. I’m sure it’s probably safe to pull the mixture back while at full power but I just don’t want to add stress to the engine. That said, I could imagine it’s a good lesson to see how the plane behaves going from full power to nothing in a heartbeat. I just opt not to do that.
I’ve also done it just with the mixture: turning the ignition off is not wise, in my mind, for several reasons: a new failure mode and raw gas getting into the exhaust being the main two.
That's not my main rule of flying. In fact, it's not even in my book.Pulling the mixture or turning off the fuel, for a carbureted engine will not stress it at any power setting. As the fuel level goes down in the bowl, the engine gets leaner and automatically reduces power before it gets too lean to run.
But what happens if the mixture control gets stuck? Or comes off the carb?
Remember the main rule of flying. Don't do anything that will sound stupid in the NTSB report. Shutting down the engine and not being able to restart is one of those things.
Hint - gliders can land safely on runways.1) Hint - motor GLIDER.
2) If you shut one down in a multi, you still have one running. In a single, not so.
Yeah, I guess there would be some value in demonstrating that when you think you’re making your pattern within gliding distance of the runway, you’re most likely not.Value of killing the engine in flight?
Glide distance and descent rate with power at idle (simulated engine failure or power off landing practise), versus dead engine and wind milling prop.
Kept her high on base to final and aimed to touch down at the 1200 feet mark. (Roughly the start of the 2nd third of the runway). Trimmed for 70 kts. On short final: pulled the mixture. She shuddered like crazy and then wind-milled.
The bottom fell out. Kept the nose down for 70 kts. Made the threshold and had the energy to flare and touch down.
interesting... I stopped reading ACS when checking this when I read the below....The ACS does not state to actually turn off one of the engines during a Multi checkride with a DPE. The ACS speaks of simulated feathering and zero-thrust during the checkride.
I know the DPE during my checkride specifically discussed with me the training I had received with my MEI in regards to actually stopping, feathering and re-starting the engine during flight however the DPE during the checkride appeared to follow the ACS and use the zero-thrust approach while I demonstrated the various single engine maneuvers.
And how much different is it doing in in a T-Craft vs a TG-6, depending on you T-Craft it might have even still had the Spoilers.Should've had a poll.
I used to do it fairly often in my T-Craft and unlike Trevor Jacob, my airplane didn't die.
The first time I tried it I was over a long runway with no other traffic in the area, and plenty of grass alongside the runway in case it was obstructed. On other occasions it was above open farm country with plenty of landing options. It had to be slowed nearly to stall to stop the prop windmilling, and yes, glide is noticeably better with it stopped vs. windmilling (prop stopped glide is similar to engine idling). Had to dive near to Vne to get it turning again (the T-Craft had no starter).
Never had a problem getting it restarted; a windmilling prop spins a lot faster than the starter will spin it, and unlike a starter which can crank for only a limited time, it keeps on spinning until it starts. Sometimes I would leave it stopped all the way to landing (control in the flare is noticeably different).
On a couple of occasions on thermic days I actually gained a couple of thousand feet before losing the lift. Fun!
For those of you furiously genuflecting and saying, "BAD! Don't do that!", you're probably right, YOU shouldn't try it, at least not on your own. But some of us have a more inquisitive mind and like knowing how the aircraft performs in all flight regimes.
I’ve heard that whether the engine is windmilling or stopped it’s pretty similar, no idea how accurate that is.
Also I have read that you should give the engine some short bursts of power while doing power off / gliding to avoid shock cooling the engine.
There are different ways to start the engine, whether it’s a cold start, hot start, etc. So you’ll want to have all of those procedures memorized and mastered.
No spoilers on a B model T-Craft like mine, only the L-2... though the FAA wants them wired shut on the L-2s nowadays.And how much different is it doing in in a T-Craft vs a TG-6, depending on you T-Craft it might have even still had the Spoilers.
Of a J-3 vs a TG-8
I've done it once, for the same reason.I’ve intentionally shut down an engine once. I felt it was important to know just how much difference there is in an idle engine vs shut down. I got a lot of crap here for doing it. I did it directly above a runway. I still think it was worth the risk to do it once, but I don’t feel the need to ever do it again, and I wouldn’t treat a 172 like a glider.
Here’s the thread if you want to read. https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...dmilling-the-truth.132499/page-2#post-3133239
I never quite figured out why the FAA doesn’t like operational spoilers on the L-2…I found them very handy and usable.No spoilers on a B model T-Craft like mine, only the L-2... though the FAA wants them wired shut on the L-2s nowadays.
I imagine the glider versions had less drag than their powered cousins, so the spoilers would have been nice to have to counter the typical T-Craft float.
(For those unfamiliar, the TG-6 and -8 were training gliders of the L-2 and J-3... remove the engine and add a third seat.)
Amateurs....my one and only flight in a B52 (not yet approved to go back into service after overhauls so I got a ride as a civ contractor) the pilot shut down one engine....didn't even notice unless you looked at the instruments.
Most likely because of the marginal rate of climb with spoilers deployed... the same reason the C-152 has only 30° of flaps when the 150 had 40°. A full flap go-around in a 150 could be exciting in the wrong way.I never quite figured out why the FAA doesn’t like operational spoilers on the L-2…I found them very handy and usable.
I know the USCG routinely shut down two in flight to reduce fuel consumption.
We were heavy for the ocean crossing and immediately lost altitude with one shut down. Turned out to be a fault in the fire warning system. The engine was ruined by shooting two fire extinguisher bottles into it.I know the USCG routinely shut down two in flight to reduce fuel consumption.
But they still had 2 running, which was enought to keep flying. But they do fly them fairly light.