KFCM leads nation in runway incursions

twdeckard

twdeckard

Pre-takeoff checklist
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twdeckard
Went to an ATC/FAA/MAC (Minneapolis Airport Commission) meeting. Open forum to discuss runway construction and other sundries but total emphasis on runway incursions as FCM as the ignoble honor of leading in them.

24 since 2005
14 pilot induced, 8 vehicle induced, 2 tower operational errors.
5 pilot errors this year.

The majority of pilot operations were while taxiing out for takeoff

(admonished not to be fiddling with cockpit configuration or other distractions, also having FBOs named hummingbird and thunderbird also the source of readback angst)

Airport will get wig-wag lights, keyed security gates and tower no longer allowed to order Jimmy Johns all as part of remediation.

Very sobering presentation, and attended by all of 30 people so I posted this message. As a guy who cannot tell his 28 from his 10 and his right from his left, lets all be careful out there.
 
twdeckard said:
Went to an ATC/FAA/MAC (Minneapolis Airport Commission) meeting. Open forum to discuss runway construction and other sundries but total emphasis on runway incursions as FCM as the ignoble honor of leading in them.

24 since 2005
14 pilot induced, 8 vehicle induced, 2 tower operational errors.
5 pilot errors this year.

The majority of pilot operations were while taxiing out for takeoff

(admonished not to be fiddling with cockpit configuration or other distractions, also having FBOs named hummingbird and thunderbird also the source of readback angst)

Airport will get wig-wag lights, keyed security gates and tower no longer allowed to order Jimmy Johns all as part of remediation.

Very sobering presentation, and attended by all of 30 people so I posted this message. As a guy who cannot tell his 28 from his 10 and his right from his left, lets all be careful out there.
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I had been hoping to make that meeting but it didn't work out so thanks for the report. Are you really saying they're going to require key access for the gates? I'm going to hate that and don't see how it will do much good if the majority of the incursions are committed by pilots.

I made a "runway incursion" once (about 30 years ago) when I walked out to the on-field VOR to take a look inside the building while a maintenance tech was working there. Since then on a couple occasions I've come close to taxiing across a runway that I was supposed to hold short of, once the distraction was a conversation with a passenger/copilot and the other was probably due to my programming the GPS while taxiing. Fortunately botht times I realized what I was about to do and stopped in time.
 
I never liked how 10L and 10R are offset from each-other. I was once supposed to depart on 10L and started my taxi. All of the sudden I was staring 10R in the face and about died thinking I taxied across 10R without noticing it. Stopped, called ground, and didn't make the mistake again.
 
gismo said:
. Are you really saying they're going to require key access for the gates? I'm going to hate that and don't see how it will do much good if the majority of the incursions are committed by pilots.
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All the gates that exist today are going to be equipped with keypads and tenants will get a code. Keypad will be accessible from a car window. Crystal is set up like this now. I assumed it was coming (the gate today simply opens magically when you loiter which makes no sense). Sore luck for the FBO walk-up business ... there will be intercom and they can be buzzed in but it will be intimidating.

They are also going to put up more blatant signage and red stripes at the interface between driving surfaces and active control areas.

It is all to prevent "who's that guy driving down alpha?" incidents although all the ones they unfurled were contractors or delivery people (literally the overzealous Jimmy Johns delivery dude who cut across 36).

They had Warren McVey (tower sup) and MSP approach folks, MAC, and an FAA guy and I felt it was a very sincere (if sorely underadvertised) outreach.

Drawings showed run-up pads for 10L and 18 aprons going away, it generated some enthusiasm and they were candid there was no solution as of yet (something to do with height/safety area encroachment).

They indicated that when the VOR moves the approach will stay up (they'll set up an entirely new one and flip over on a chart cycle). There was also something about displacing the threshold to 36 becuase of the fence. He indicated they were on schedule to get the ILS back online but I didn't make a note of the date.

MSP dude dodged flack about wide routings around Class B with the 17 departures. Sounds like they now are pressured very directly to keep jet/turbines inside class B and VFR out, so the 4/22 transition where you overfly to hop over to the north is going to be rare -- however the largest reason was the construction shutting down the parallel which sends jets squirting out to the south. They also pleaded to take care at Crystal as one of the patterns will be right under Minneapolis arrivals with the new flow.

The overriding theme was clearly a tower manager getting a lot of scrutiny every time there was an incident. All the FCM crimes had been class D/class C (minor or low risk of accident) but they clearly were angsting over the potential. MSP approach dude claimed that hawk-eyed enforcers watched radar repeaters in D.C. and he was called whenever a jet dumped out of class B prematurely. I know I have been getting complacent and took it as a reminder to reinforce my sterile cockpit procedures and really look at the chart before I let up on the brakes.

See you around!
Todd
 
twdeckard said:
All the gates that exist today are going to be equipped with keypads and tenants will get a code. Keypad will be accessible from a car window.
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How many of the 8 vehicle induced incursions were by non pilots? Or is this just another "security measure"

At Anoka KANE we have one gate with a Keypad and two that are automatic. Explain that on to me.
 
ron22 said:
How many of the 8 vehicle induced incursions were by non pilots? Or is this just another "security measure"

At Anoka KANE we have one gate with a Keypad and two that are automatic. Explain that on to me.
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It sounded like there were in the "do something!" mode. A lot of scrutiny. FCM now listed as the most dangerous airport in the US. All of the incidents they played thru with animations were contractors supposed to be on the airport. I don't think it'll be a hassle, but then I am not worried about losing the curious who might take a charter/flying lessons but get scared off by the keypad. The gate will freely open on exits.
 
jesse said:
I never liked how 10L and 10R are offset from each-other. I was once supposed to depart on 10L and started my taxi. All of the sudden I was staring 10R in the face and about died thinking I taxied across 10R without noticing it. Stopped, called ground, and didn't make the mistake again.
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I made a similar mistake once (you were there). I taxied to 10R instead of 10L, and the controller caught my mistake and told me to use 10R instead. Good thing no one was landing
 
Probably not a huge surprise you're number one. We'd often get safety emails from the FAA about runway incursions at PDK. It has a very similar layout. And yes, numerous safety features were installed, such as the wig-wag hold short lights.

I'm not aware that they ever had delivery guys crossing the field to deliver food to the tower. :cheerswine:
 
jesse said:
I never liked how 10L and 10R are offset from each-other. I was once supposed to depart on 10L and started my taxi. All of the sudden I was staring 10R in the face and about died thinking I taxied across 10R without noticing it. Stopped, called ground, and didn't make the mistake again.
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That's why you taxi with the airport diagram out.
 
Dangit, I like parking at Thunderbird to eat my lunch and watch airport ops. Probably won't do that anymore if I gotta call the FBO on the intercom. Maybe since I'm a current renter they can give me a code...or is it hangar owners only that will get a code?
 
jesse said:
Really? I hadn't ever considered doing so....
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Not a bad habit to get into if you have any checkrides in your future. The FSDO almost failed the local DPE on his yearly "checkride checkride" when he didn't fail the candidate for not having an airport diagram out. And our layout is dirt simple - GA uses runways 21 and 32 almost exclusively. 32 borders the ramp. If you're a renter or based on the East ramp, you get Juliet and Bravo to 21 (doesn't cross any runways), if you're based on the South ramp you get Delta and Bravo to 21 (crosses 14/32). Pretty dirt simple. I haven't looked at the diagram in ages, but I know that I've gotta have it out on checkrides!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Not a bad habit to get into if you have any checkrides in your future. The FSDO almost failed the local DPE on his yearly "checkride checkride" when he didn't fail the candidate for not having an airport diagram out. And our layout is dirt simple - GA uses runways 21 and 32 almost exclusively. 32 borders the ramp. If you're a renter or based on the East ramp, you get Juliet and Bravo to 21 (doesn't cross any runways), if you're based on the South ramp you get Delta and Bravo to 21 (crosses 14/32). Pretty dirt simple. I haven't looked at the diagram in ages, but I know that I've gotta have it out on checkrides!
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Kent--I was joking. Obviously having a diagram out would be better. **** happens.
 
We've got painted green areas to control the taxi lanes (putting greens fake grass), we've got WigWag lights. We've got RED painted runway warnings on the taxi way.

And Forbes Magazine labels us the most dangerous GA airport.

Thanx for taking the heat off us.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Not a bad habit to get into if you have any checkrides in your future. The FSDO almost failed the local DPE on his yearly "checkride checkride" when he didn't fail the candidate for not having an airport diagram out. And our layout is dirt simple - GA uses runways 21 and 32 almost exclusively. 32 borders the ramp. If you're a renter or based on the East ramp, you get Juliet and Bravo to 21 (doesn't cross any runways), if you're based on the South ramp you get Delta and Bravo to 21 (crosses 14/32). Pretty dirt simple. I haven't looked at the diagram in ages, but I know that I've gotta have it out on checkrides!
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I'm not in a position to "fail" anybody, but I fly with some pilots who are gonna get beaned with a 2-D-cell flashlight if they don't start having the airport chart handy...:yes:

"Which way do we turn?"

"I don't know...YOU'RE the one that has the book with the taxi chart in your hand. Maybe you oughta open it."
 
note - flying with david could be detrimental to your health :)
 
Yesterday when flying out of KFCM, I was cleared from the West side of the airport to Runway 36 via alpha, delta (on the East side) with a hold short of 36. I dutifully motored up to 36 on alpha and sat there idling on the north "18" end. I was suprised to get the frivilous hold short, there was no landing traffic and I prodded TWR that I was holding short. I got an immediate clearance the rest of the way. It seemed peculiar to me until ... a chill ... I realized you are not cleared to cross your assigned runway with a taxi clearance! If the dude hadn't prodded me with the hold short I bet I would have motored right across and added to the incursion tally.

Its an unusual situation becuase one set of taxiways is torn up oblidging them to send East siders across the runway to get to the taxi strip.
 
twdeckard said:
Yesterday when flying out of KFCM, I was cleared from the West side of the airport to Runway 36 via alpha, delta (on the East side) with a hold short of 36. I dutifully motored up to 36 on alpha and sat there idling on the north "18" end. I was suprised to get the frivilous hold short, there was no landing traffic and I prodded TWR that I was holding short. I got an immediate clearance the rest of the way. It seemed peculiar to me until ... a chill ... I realized you are not cleared to cross your assigned runway with a taxi clearance! If the dude hadn't prodded me with the hold short I bet I would have motored right across and added to the incursion tally.

Its an unusual situation becuase one set of taxiways is torn up oblidging them to send East siders across the runway to get to the taxi strip.
Click to expand...

The same thoughts crossed my mind yesterday and undoubtedly someone in the tower figured this out as well. The original configuration of runways and taxiways at FCM doesn't require crossing any runway to depart from that same runway but with all the closed taxiways this has become quite standard there and although it's not technically required the ground controller has been issuing specific hold short instructions to any plane that is following a path that would cross an active runway.

On a related note, I've revised my cockpit procedures such that I will no longer perform anything extraneous like GPS fiddling, control checks etc. while taxiing if I've been given a hold short instruction for somewhere prior to the departure end of my assigned runway. Some folks won't do any of that while taxiing ever, but I believe I can manage some simple tasks while taxiing as long as they don't require much eyes inside time. That said, such activity is a distraction and to avoid becoming another incursion perp. I want to eliminate as much distraction as possible when I'm supposed to stop earlier than normal.
 
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