Just Wandering

[cfiiguy]

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[ScottM]

I always though aerobatics was for pilots who could not master straight and level flight!! LOL

I would someday like to try it though. My home aerodrome has a lot of aerobatic guys who compete and at least one who earns a living at it.

Welcome aboard to PoA!!

 

[tonycondon]

welcome. ive only had a taste of aerobatics, where do you teach?

 

[wabower]

Have you ever seen a 6' 3" X 240# 7-Up can? Or whatever color is closest to it? No mas.

 

[GMascelli]

cfiiguy....

Welocome to POA!

 

[Geico266]

Welcome! Acro is fun.

Really gets the blood pumping to do a 1 "G" aileron roll. It is interesting (to me anyway) the difference between a left & right aileron roll. I had an unintended snap roll from improper aileron rolls to the right. That got my attention. Acro helps teaches to know where the controls are at all times.

Welcome!

 

[Diana]

Welcome to PoA.

I am surprised I had to go back several months to find links in this sub group.

Seems like most of us that have been here since the beginning have said all we had to say about aerobatics.

I must admitt that I do teach introductory acro, (using a 7ECA) and have found it to be the most rewarding of all phases of instruction.

So, how do YOU do an aileron roll in a Citabria, and do you find it difficult to do a "10" competition roll in a Citabria? Do you ever lose much oil when you do hammerheads in a Citabria?

 

[nyoung]

Hey Scott -

Years ago, I took an aerobatics intro flight with Bill Bruns @ Kenosha (ENW), at the time he was giving instruction in a red Decathlon.

Inverted flight, rolls, spins, and I think we did a loop too (wish I would have notated my logbook better). It definitely was the funnest entry in my logbook. Loved every second of it, even the taildragger landing...

Anyway, if he's still around - you should look into it. Just a short hop from 10C.

-Nathan

I always though aerobatics was for pilots who could not master straight and level flight!! LOL

I would someday like to try it though. My home aerodrome has a lot of aerobatic guys who compete and at least one who earns a living at it.

Welcome aboard to PoA!!

 

[Diana]

i have heard different people call different rolls competition rolls. i have always believed that to be a 4 point hesitation roll. if this is what you are referring to, then my answer would be a citabria doen't have the roll rate for a really good one. by using 140 at the entry,and using close to 2g's during the inverted portion,(even then it's hard to hold the horizon) and not stopping for more than a quick second at each 90, it can be done.

In the primary sequence, it's a slow roll without hesitation. It's tough to do without cheating and nosing up a little bit at the beginning of the roll. And my arm isn't long enough to push the stick far enough forward inverted to keep that darned nose up. What points I lost in the roll, I tried to make up for in the spin.

as a side bar, i love your pics and videos from your "farm".

Thanks!

maybe someday i'll be able to stop in for a visit.

That would be great...come see us sometime.

 

[Bill]

Anyway,, didn't mean to get so long winded, but come on people, we're talking ACRO here, how can you not get excited about it!!!!

Welcome Steve.

As a "reward" between passing my PP, and starting IR, I did an 8 less into to aerobatics course. I think it was a 7GCB, as it had flaps, although we never used them. The instructor was a retired Naval aviator, that was a fun course.

 

[Everskyward]

Welcome to POA, cfiguy. I enjoyed the acro lessons I took a couple years ago. I think I have about 10 hours combined between a Super Decathlon and a Pitts. I learned the Primary seqence but I never competed. One of these days I'd like to get back to it.

 

[somorris]

I have a terrible time understanding people who do not like this crazy hobbie of ours!

To borrow a quote from "Deliverance," "They don't know nuthin!":smile:

Welcome to the Board, Steve. I like acro, but don't have an acro plane available. I think it was Bill Thomas who said (when talking about how much he enjoyed acro) "...that you can actually use an airplane to go somewhere is just a bonus!" That's kind of the way I feel.

 

[Dudley Henriques]

for the aileron roll, i like to get 130 indicated, about a 2g pull to around 20 degrees above the horizon,(this leaves 120mph for entry) go to neutral elevator,full left aileron with just enough left rudder to stop any yaw. just a few degrees before inverted i'll put just a bit of forward stick to "unload" the airplane. at around 300 degrees of roll i'll bring in a little left rudder to finish the roll. i have heard different people call different rolls competition rolls. i have always believed that to be a 4 point hesitation roll. if this is what you are referring to, then my answer would be a citabria doen't have the roll rate for a really good one. by using 140 at the entry,and using close to 2g's during the inverted portion,(even then it's hard to hold the horizon) and not stopping for more than a quick second at each 90, it can be done. just not clean and crisp like in a pitts or similar aircraft. i've never noticed any oil loss during the hammerhead. i use 140 indicated for the entry. pull a solid 4.5 to 5 g's on entry, try to stop on a good verticle,and just before it runs out of energy,gently step on the left rudder,using just enough right aileron,and forward stick to make a clean "level" turn. BTW, a good hammerhead is one of my favorite manuvers.
as a side bar, i love your pics and videos from your "farm". maybe someday i'll be able to stop in for a visit.

THANKS to all who welcomed me on to the board!!
Steve

Excellent explanation for an aileron roll.
I would respectfully offer only a small caveat.
The Citabria as I'm sure you know has a fair degree of roll intertia and doesn't exactly have the roll rate of a Pitts, Extra, or a T38 )
On that left rudder use;
At the roll set initiating with enough inside rudder to offset the adverse yaw, you want to get off that inside rudder as soon as you have pinned the nose negating that yaw continuing on with hard rolling aileron as holding in the rudder past 45 degrees into the first knife edge position will pull the nose down on you which is exactly what you don't need in a Citabria )
Feeding in forward stick between the first knife edge and through inverted to unload will as you say help a great deal in keeping the roll on a balanced parabolic arc without too much dishout on the backside. Reapplication of inside rudder passing through the back side knife edge on through the roll as you say is normal for a coordinated recovery.
Glad you're having fun teaching acro! It's a wonderful way to make your everyday flying all that much better as well, and there is no better way to learn than to teach
Dudley Henriques

 

[Dudley Henriques]

Dudley,
I agree entirely. I just failed to mention getting off the rudder beyound "coordinating" the entry. i guess i was assuming it was implied when i followed with bring in enough left rudder to finish the roll. Even as instructors, we can learn everyday if we just pay attention. I also agree that the best way to learn, is to teach!! for me there is little in life as rewarding as seeing the student accomplish their goals.
THANKS
Steve

)

I've always believed I didn't even begin to learn to fly until I became an instructor. The two best instructors I ever had were the airplane and the student.
Best of luck with your flying.
Dudley Henriques

 

[Commander Dave]

I've always believed I didn't even begin to learn to fly until I became an instructor. The two best instructors I ever had were the airplane and the student.

Very interesting comment Dudley.

As a recent CFI, I was surprised to find how much I was learning from the right seat. I can only compare it to the first time you fly with a friend, all of a sudden you start seeing things on the ground that you had never noticed before.

Instructing has opened up a whole new world to me, and has already begun to make me a better pilot.

 

[Commander Dave]

As a side bar, a few years back a friend bought a 112, I did his complex check out in it. Then he moved up to a 114 and we did his instrument and commercial in it. One heck of an airplane. I'm 6'1" and 230lbs, and Ron was every bit that big. We had plenty of room left over after closing the doors. Very stable aircraft,easy to fly and land as well. Really enjoyed the time I spent in it.
Steve

All very true - Love the Commander, its a very stable, and comfortable airframe. Great IFR platform as well.

 

[Jberg440]

Im working toward my PPL currently and cannot wait to take the aerobatic/spin training course next year. I would like to find someone near me one of these days with a two seater to take me up and see if i can even hold down my biscuits.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Im working toward my PPL currently and cannot wait to take the aerobatic/spin training course next year. I would like to find someone near me one of these days with a two seater to take me up and see if i can even hold down my biscuits.

Check with these guys: http://www.iac78.org Probably about as local as you will find.

 

[jhempel]

I have a little aerobatic training. I can see where it would get addictive very quickly! The only reason I stopped was due to a shortage of $funds$. It is still on my list of things to do....