Jet-A...Some Day...

[RobertGerace]

No. Not a 340A nor a Citation. A TBM 700.

Citation is a little long on most GA strips (bal length ~=5000).

The other ship that will do the ATL-Montana trip in reasonable time is the Twin Commander. Insurance for these ships run in the $30K+ range.

Bruce,

OK. Maybe I have some dumb fears here that you can help me dispel?

The TBM-700. I like the engine. I hate the single point-of-failure in the prop. If it comes off, you're-a-goin-down...

The Twin Commander. I like the fact that it has two props that must come off before you're-a-goin-down. But with them that close to the pilot it makes me wonder what happens if it sheds a blade through the cabin? Is that even possible?

 

[spiderweb]

The Twin Commander. I like the fact that it has two props that must come off before you're-a-goin-down. But with them that close to the pilot it makes me wonder what happens if it sheds a blade through the cabin? Is that even possible?

In the highly unlikely event . . . you will be fine, but the passengers behind you might not.

 

[gismo]

Bruce,

OK. Maybe I have some dumb fears here that you can help me dispel?

The TBM-700. I like the engine. I hate the single point-of-failure in the prop. If it comes off, you're-a-goin-down...

The Twin Commander. I like the fact that it has two props that must come off before you're-a-goin-down. But with them that close to the pilot it makes me wonder what happens if it sheds a blade through the cabin? Is that even possible?

Props coming apart is one of those scenarios where two engines does little more than give you twice the opportunity for failure. And as you point out, a twin throwing a blade comes with a hazard not present in a single, that of the blade penetrating the cabin (and a person).

In most GA prop planes, losing a blade is by itself a nearly catastrophic event since the imbalance will remove the engine forthwith and that presents all sorts of problems, not the least of which is the huge impact on CG. Fortunately AFaIK loss of prop has about the same (lack of) occurance as loss of wing, IOW something hardly worth considering when choosing a mount.

There may be some SPOF's in a turbine single, but for most of them your exposure should be fairly limited since the glide range from cruise altitude ought to include several airports. You might want to practice your (single) engine out instrument approach skills though.

 

[bbchien]

These are not dumb fears. Both are real. However, in the TBM 700 at FL 27 or 29, you have 100 miles to find a port of landing. Propellor maintenence becomes part of engine maintenence. You fly the prop to TBO and have it taken apart just like a hot section.

The Citation I and the Microjets are no faster (OK, 290 vs 310 kts Twin Commander vs Citation 1). If you can limit youself to 5000 foot or greater runways, the the Citation or a micro is a better bet. However, You can do a single turbine for about $120K per year. A Twin turbine will take about $150K-$160, and there is NO WAY to do it cheaper. I've been over this with Larry Byerly sooo many times.

Like Henning says, too much airplane can be worse than too little.

Experiencing a little mission stretch here, are we? ;-)

 

[wsuffa]

Bob,

hope it doesn't turn into a bigger money pit than the 310 Turbines do cost more money.....

 

[bbchien]

No way to do this for less than $150K/year. No way.

 

[RobertGerace]

Mission stretch? Who, me?

Hi, I'm Bob, and I'm an airplane-aholic.

OK. Just for fun...

Obviously the $150k does NOT include acquisition cost. It seems to me that a private owner really needs to either have a true business need that justifies $17,000 a month in INTEREST ($23k/mo. pmt) or needs to take $3,000,000 out of his retirement and pay cash. (I'm assuming $3 million to buy a new bird.)

I'm not sure if I'd rather have a PC-12 or a TBM-700, but who cares because I can't afford either. But looking at them it appears that the TBM-700 *could* be purchased used for close to about $1 million. (Still doesn't matter...sigh...)

But, given the winning lotto ticket, if the bird is paid for, and insurance is $30k/year...how many hours can I fly for $120,000 per year?

To Lance's point...I've kind of been thinking that if I even did buy such a step-up airplane I would want it new because I would not want to restore it...but seeing that I can save about $2 million...hmmmmmm....

"Honey! I just saved you TWO MILLION DOLLARS!"...it could work...

 

[Henning]

Bruce,

OK. Maybe I have some dumb fears here that you can help me dispel?

The TBM-700. I like the engine. I hate the single point-of-failure in the prop. If it comes off, you're-a-goin-down...

The Twin Commander. I like the fact that it has two props that must come off before you're-a-goin-down. But with them that close to the pilot it makes me wonder what happens if it sheds a blade through the cabin? Is that even possible?

I haven't really looked, but in my little running mental database, I only recall a couple blade shedding incidents, and neither involved a PT-6 they were all larger engines. I have a feeling that shedding blades would turn up a statistical anomoly, hence not worth considering in a purchase decision. BTW, I believe the PT-6 is the only engine the USPS will allow the US Mail to fly behind single engine, that says something about its statistical reliability. However, your plane needs a job hauling the US Mail, some equally lucrative cargo or equal business value to be able to afford operating the dang thing. My friend bought a 602 Air Tractor, he has to spray a 100,000 acres to break his annual nut, too scary for me. I'll just buy old round engine planes and accept the extra maintenance effort (however they're less $$$ to keep) and risk when I need to own one, or just fly other peoples.

BTW, the term Hot Start takes on a whole new meaning when you step into turbines. It changes from a PITA to $250,000+.

I did an analysis for a guy a while back in roughly your position although he owned a Baron. The only thing that showed a cost potential for his missions was a PC-12, and even with its low operating cost, would just eat too much of the businesses profits, so he's still flying the Baron, bummer for me because he was going to hire me to fly the PC-12 , oh well, I still run his boat when he needs it.

 

[Mark S]

The Citation I and the Microjets are no faster (OK, 290 vs 310 kts Twin Commander vs Citation 1). If you can limit youself to 5000 foot or greater runways, the the Citation or a micro is a better bet.

I remember going to Williamson, West by god Virginia (4I0) one time in a coal company's Citation Jet (an older one I'm sure,maybe a 500? I'm not up on my CJ's) and landed with some room to spare. This airport has a 3515 foot runway cut out of the top of a mountain and there were four of us on the plane plus pilots. While we went to the coal mine the pilots went to another airport for fuel and returned. We got back and the CJ pilots went to the end of the runway, lined up, powered up the engines and released the brakes. We were off and climbing about halfway down the runway. I was impressed. Later, I asked the pilots what the abort point was if the lost an engine and was told "brake release". I was a little less impressed then.

 

[bbchien]

Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome. AIDS.

 

[gismo]

Mission stretch? Who, me?

Hi, I'm Bob, and I'm an airplane-aholic.

OK. Just for fun...

I'm not sure if I'd rather have a PC-12 or a TBM-700, but who cares because I can't afford either. But looking at them it appears that the TBM-700 *could* be purchased used for close to about $1 million. (Still doesn't matter...sigh...)

But, given the winning lotto ticket, if the bird is paid for, and insurance is $30k/year...how many hours can I fly for $120,000 per year?

To Lance's point...I've kind of been thinking that if I even did buy such a step-up airplane I would want it new because I would not want to restore it...but seeing that I can save about $2 million...hmmmmmm....

Assuming we had the wherwithall, buying used doesn't help much. The PC-12's seem to hold their value beyond all rational thought, and only the latest version of the TBM-700 (TVM-700C2) can carry as much as your 310 so even a good discount on a used one wouldn't be a good deal unless you planned to fly everywhere solo or make a lot of fuel stops. And remember that each extra fuel stop costs a buindle with a turbine (extra pressurize cycle, extra start cycle, and wasted fuel at low altitude).

"Honey! I just saved you TWO MILLION DOLLARS!"...it could work...

Given that it seems a lot of women (OK that's a stereotype, but it's a widely believed one)actually think that way (save money by spending money on something you don't need because it's a good deal), you might actually get that one to fly.

 

[gkainz]

Yep, when the lotto fairy sprinkles my ticket with fairy dust, the PC-12 is at the top of my shopping list...