Island Airways -Beaver Island crash

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by Der Fliegermeister, Nov 13, 2021.

  1. Der Fliegermeister

    Der Fliegermeister Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2021
    Messages:
    181

    Display name:
    Bandit
  2. KaiGywer

    KaiGywer Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    KBIS

    Display name:
    KaiGywer
  3. Flying Doc

    Flying Doc Pre-Flight PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2020
    Messages:
    76

    Display name:
    FlyingDoc
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2021
  4. Flying Doc

    Flying Doc Pre-Flight PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2020
    Messages:
    76

    Display name:
    FlyingDoc
    Hmm not much information yet on this one. How was the weather that day? I know later in the evening there were some snow showers all over MI but don't know around 1-2pm. There are no published approaches into Welke. Only a GPS approach into nearby KSJX. Weather often low clouds and foggy there this time of year. Separate unrelated concern for both island airlines: Both often fly below 2000 on that route over the water. Is it to save fuel and/or not enough time to climb to a safer altitude since its such a short hop? I usually cruise in at 8500 or more and start my descent to make the airport in case of engine out over water...granted from southern Michigan lots of time to get that alt.
     
    Huckster79 likes this.
  5. Flying Doc

    Flying Doc Pre-Flight PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2020
    Messages:
    76

    Display name:
    FlyingDoc
  6. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,975

    Display name:
    Huckster79
    Wow, how sad. I flew right seat in one of those birds once. How sad
     
  7. ldhilljr13

    ldhilljr13 Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2021
    Messages:
    22

    Display name:
    ldhilljr13
    New England Air uses a fleet of Britten-Norman Islanders to shuttle passengers and freight from Westerly, RI, to Block Island, RI, and I've always been impressed by how many passengers (up to 10 including the pilot) and how much baggage they can carry. Also, the landing flaps setting is 56 degrees of flaps, which allows that plane to make steep and relatively slow approaches.

    The news article linked above said this was the 1:30 pm flight to Beaver Island, so (after I confirmed that Beaver Island is in the Eastern time zone) this would have occurred probably around 1845 UTC on 13 November. The archived METAR reports for KSJX show some gusty winds and occasional light snow around that time. (I would assume they were trying to land on paved Rwy 27 at KSJX (4,299 feet), although there is also a 3,278-foot grass Rwy 32).

    (I have landed on Block while a passenger on New England Air in conditions similar to those listed below, and the plane has always seemed pretty stable even in high/gusty/cross winds).

    SA 13/11/2021 19:55->
    METAR KSJX 131955Z AUTO 34008KT 10SM SCT022 BKN037 OVC060 04/01 A2974 RMK AO2 T00400008=
    SA 13/11/2021 19:35->
    METAR KSJX 131935Z AUTO 31006G15KT 10SM SCT008 SCT023 BKN033 04/00 A2973 RMK AO2 T00400000=
    SA 13/11/2021 19:15->
    METAR KSJX 131915Z AUTO 31005G16KT 4SM -SN SCT007 SCT018 BKN044 03/01 A2974 RMK AO2 T00290013=
    SA 13/11/2021 18:55->
    METAR KSJX 131855Z AUTO 32011G20KT 10SM SCT020 SCT030 SCT038 04/00 A2973 RMK AO2 T00410001=
    SA 13/11/2021 18:35->
    METAR KSJX 131835Z AUTO 33010G19KT 5SM -SN SCT018 SCT022 BKN028 03/00 A2974 RMK AO2 T00330003=
    SA 13/11/2021 18:15->
    METAR KSJX 131815Z AUTO 32011G15KT 10SM SCT013 SCT019 BKN037 05/00 A2973 RMK AO2 T00510003=
    SA 13/11/2021 17:55->
    METAR KSJX 131755Z AUTO 30007G18KT 5SM -RA SCT013 BKN019 OVC034 04/01 A2974 RMK AO2 T00380013 10052 20035=
     
  8. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    8,037

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    they're an impressive and supremely rugged, if not somewhat ungainly looking, bird. There are some great videos on YouTube of Islanders and Trislanders pushing some very hard IMC in dubious conditions and austere airports. The Trislander I always thought was a cool little "mini DC10" of sorts..
     
  9. Jack Cabano

    Jack Cabano Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2021
    Messages:
    103

    Display name:
    1969 Cessna150J
    Very sad, RIP, and a tough road ahead for the survivor.

    A very beautiful area. Many, many, years ago I enjoyed a flight to and back from the island on an Aztec. Apparently the Piper had replaced a Cessna Bobcat, there were several framed photos of it in both terminals.
     
  10. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    3,213
    Location:
    NEPA

    Display name:
    benyflyguy
    Man I had to look it up. Those planes can really move the meat with a pair of O-540’s.
     
  11. Flying Doc

    Flying Doc Pre-Flight PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2020
    Messages:
    76

    Display name:
    FlyingDoc
    Actually they typically use the 2500 foot long 30 foot wide runway at Welke field. I am too chicken to land a Saratoga there. Road and trees line west end of the runway...not to mention the 30 foot wide runway that goes up and down and has a bump at the grass field intersection. However unlike me, those guys are pros and land these bigger birds there all the time. They know what they are doing and do it often. They know the obstacles and visual references.
    FYI: There is another flight operation that flies out of KSJX the much bigger airfield 3 miles away. Jets also land at KSJX and there is a GPS approach.
    But poor visibility strong gusty winds can get the best of us. or Engine out?..who the heck knows at this point. Bless their souls and donate at the go fund me page.

    https://www.gofundme.com/f/prayers-for-perdues
     
  12. Racerx

    Racerx Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,225

    Display name:
    Ernie
    Read an article about how the father bear hugged his daughter just before or during. That tells me something was amiss. Pure speculation. Prayers for the families
     
  13. ldhilljr13

    ldhilljr13 Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2021
    Messages:
    22

    Display name:
    ldhilljr13
    Ah -- that's very interesting to know, and certainly seems like it would be a more challenging place to land. Although Block Island has a relatively short runway (2,500'), it is 100' wide and sits perched up on a hill so that it's a relatively obstacle-free approach (or departure) from either end.
     
  14. Joshua Leese

    Joshua Leese Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2

    Display name:
    joshua leese
    I am the brother of Kate one of the deceased.

    My family is from charlevoix and we have rode on island airways for the past 30 years with probably hundreds of flights all together.

    The pilot that was flying was new and had just started for them in april for weekends. He was a local middle school teacher and aviation enthusiasts. My understanding was this was his first commercial job.

    I have been to the island and talked to to the deupty sherif who was at the scene.

    The crash was witnessed. They had radioed in 10 min out and 1 to 2 min out that everything was on track. The were on line with approach. At start of run way the left wing dipped and they went nose down from about 20 feet up.

    People were on scene with in 30 seconds. Pilot was still talking and little girl was alive, but my sister, her husband, and other passenger were never conscious or had a pulse. Their dogs also died on impact.

    The weather was fair. It had sleeted lightly earlier in day but the plane had already done one trip out and back. Temp was 39 at the time. Wind was under 15 from northwest gusts up to 25 but nothing unusual. Vis was good > 5 miles. The cost guard heli was already up in grand traverse bay and they were on scene in less then 10 minutes. They had no problems getting in and out.

    I am sorry to all the families involved. It has been very difficult.

    Quote Reply
    Report Attach files
    Share:
    FacebookTwitterRedditTumblrEmailGeneral Topics
    Forum software by XenForo® © 2010-2020 XenForo Ltd.

    Top
     
  15. Cricket1

    Cricket1 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Ohio

    Display name:
    Brian
    Joshua-

    I am so sorry for your loss.....

    Thank you for providing details, so that others may learn from this tragedy.
     
  16. MFE

    MFE Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Messages:
    62

    Display name:
    MFE
    Very sorry for your loss
     
  17. ldhilljr13

    ldhilljr13 Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2021
    Messages:
    22

    Display name:
    ldhilljr13
    I concur; very sorry for your loss, Joshua.
     
  18. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    28,824
    Location:
    Land of Savages

    Display name:
    steingar
    I haven't words for your loss. My sister passed away some time ago, so I have a clue what you're going through. I hope you and your family can find some peace in this horrible time.
     
  19. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2018
    Messages:
    2,628

    Display name:
    Juliet Hotel
    Thank you for that information Joshua. Very sorry for your loss.
     
  20. Agentair

    Agentair Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2014
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Michigan

    Display name:
    Agentair
    No words for all the loss, but thank you for the update.
     
  21. Racerx

    Racerx Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,225

    Display name:
    Ernie
    That was a tough read Joshua. My heart aches for your family and others. We all appreciate your insight to try to make us better pilots.
     
  22. Flying Doc

    Flying Doc Pre-Flight PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2020
    Messages:
    76

    Display name:
    FlyingDoc
    Thank you for sharing. Best wishes for the tough times ahead. Your sister and her companion seemed like great people and not only a huge loss to you and your family but also the BI community.

    Thanks again for posting here. if there is a Go Fund Me page let us know.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  23. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    8,037

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    I am incredibly sorry for your loss and can't imagine what you must be going through. Your post is appreciated
     
  24. SethV

    SethV Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    151

    Display name:
    SethV
    Joshua, thoughts and prayers are with you during this impossibly difficult time.
     
  25. Flying Doc

    Flying Doc Pre-Flight PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2020
    Messages:
    76

    Display name:
    FlyingDoc
    Joshua as you can tell from discussions here,

    We often discuss plane accidents at POA, often without much information. We do so to learn from the bits and pieces we can put together. Its speculation at best but it takes the NTSB 2 years to tell us what happened and often they do not even travel to a crash site. Pilots like to get an idea faster in order to take corrective action for own flying. Mostly..and I speak for me...to learn from and avoid making similar mistakes(that we are all prone to).

    Based on the information you provided, a wing dipping in slow landing configuration, on final approach...can mean it stalled(lost ability to fly) perhaps due to changing wind gusts and slow approach speed...or unfortunate wind shear pushing plane down. All speculation. I had my wing do that in windless conditions, near ground and it was scary, definitely a stall. In that case it was my fault. Heavy plane and too slow a speed. I applied full power for go around and it(wing) recovered immediately...but clearly I remember the incident, broke a sweat and learned/walked away from it.

    I added this here as I imagine you are looking for answers, as we all are. Whenever there is an accident in the aviation community we all hurt. Again may they RIP and let us know if there is anything this community can do.

    http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/11/britten-norman-bn-2a-islander-n866ja.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
    Huckster79 likes this.
  26. Joshua Leese

    Joshua Leese Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2

    Display name:
    joshua leese
    Thank you all for the support.

    NTSB investigator called yesterday and said 2 to 6 weeks for prelim fact report. 18 to 24 months for factual report and 24 to 30 months before final report with causation.
     
    Flying Doc likes this.
  27. Flying Doc

    Flying Doc Pre-Flight PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2020
    Messages:
    76

    Display name:
    FlyingDoc
    Thank you for sharing with us.
     
  28. 3393RP

    3393RP En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,377

    Display name:
    3393RP
    My sincerest condolences to you and your family. I hope in due time your grief will be assuaged, and the good memories of your sister and brother-in-law will stay with you always.
     
  29. Flying Doc

    Flying Doc Pre-Flight PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2020
    Messages:
    76

    Display name:
    FlyingDoc
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2021
  30. donjohnston

    donjohnston Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,559
    Location:
    Panama City, FL

    Display name:
    Don
    Prelim report here.
     

    Attached Files: