Is it possible to work as a supervisor/low-level manager right after college?

N918KT

N918KT

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
716
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Display Name
Display name:
KT
So I was taking a look at AAAE's Career Center web page everyday for many months looking for airport operations/management positions, and I only see very few entry-level positions in airport operations that require a bachelor's degree. Usually, most airport management positions on the AAAE's career web page consists of more managerial positions like airport operations manager, airport manager, assistant airport operations manager, etc.

I usually do not want a managerial position right after I graduated from college, or any kind of managerial position at all, well at least not for quite a while, until I get more work experience in aviation and airport management.

But, is it possible that a college grad who just graduated with a bachelors degree could be qualified for and get hired as a supervisor or low-level manager in general? Does it happen often?
 
Hate to burst your bubble, but an AA gets you a start as a supervisor at McDonalds, maybe.
 
A college degree does open doors. Sometimes though it is better on who you know.

I am the acting CFO and treasurer at my company and never took an accounting course. In fact math was my weakest subject all through school.
 
It depends on what you want to supervise, etc...who you know, what you are capable of, etc... and the college degree may or may not be worth anything. I know a bunch of guys in the aviation world that I've met that didn't have the degree, but supervised and managed people that worked for them in their small business,
 
Dude, I know guys with just high school diplomas who are managers.
 
Is it possible to work as a supervisor/low-level manager right after college?

Yes. It is possible even without the degree especially if you have "comparable work experience."
 
James331 said:
Dude, I know guys with just high school diplomas who are managers.
Click to expand...

I'm a manager and I dropped out of high school. That said it's total BS that people tend to believe management HAS to be part of everyones career path. Not everyone is cut out to do it...
 
I'm not quite sure I understand the premise of the question. When you say "supervisor" do you mean a supervisor of professional staff? Probably not.

When I got my first job with an undergraduate engineering degree I supervised technical and operational staff. Depends on the degree and the field in which you are working.
 
I was not yet 19 when I had 6 workers put under me. I was also the plant safety officer. Sometimes I felt like a scapegoat.

While it is possible the probability seems it would be up to the specific workplace. Look at EdFred, he's the Chief!...and headmaster.
 
Even if you do, my .02

I don't care what sort of rockstar super awesome people / leadership skills you have, I wouldn't have anyone supervising people (especially in corporate roles) that had not done the lower job before.

As a software engineer, my life was miserable with people over me having earned management, marketing, MBAs, etc all promising siht to customers by XYZ date having no understanding of what it was I had to build or how many hours it would take me to make their promise come true.

Enter me working nights and weekends scrambling to get other peoples' commitments made so they could get their bonus and then they can later complain about how there are bugs.

I now manage developers and I have probably missed one deadline in 8 years because I know what my team can do, I have done the job and can understand why it will take what it will take.

I have no idea how or even if this translates to aviation management but The best bosses I have ever had were the ones that were promoted into those positions versus hired into them.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I don't care what sort of rockstar super awesome people / leadership skills you have, I wouldn't have anyone supervising people (especially in corporate roles) that had not done the lower job before.
Click to expand...


You going to recommend firing most execs in the U.S. then? I'm sure Warren Buffett will run over to the nearest Progressive office and head out to do a claims adjustment. Or hop an oil train in N. Dakota and drive it. :)
 
What is "airport manager" or "airport operations manager"?


Is there something unique that requires a different degree/ skill set than other "managers" of similar sized budgets and head counts?

In small towns, I would guess the Airport Manager is similar to the. Parks Dept Manager, the Cemetary Manager, the City Sewer Dept Manager, etc.


In bigger cities, just bigger experiences and being promoted from within.
 
Funny, this is the second time this week that this has come up. I had a college kid ask me that just the other day. I could tell that he was disappointed that he wouldn't graduate and walk into a $75K/yr job behind a large desk.

Most places are not going to hire someone with no experience to supervise others. Not that it never happens, but it is a poor business practice. This is true whether we're talking blue-collar jobs or an office setting.

I've been here 25 years and our mail room has always been about evenly split with kids with and w/o college diplomas. Many have worked their way up, some rather quickly.
 
denverpilot said:
You going to recommend firing most execs in the U.S. then? I'm sure Warren Buffett will run over to the nearest Progressive office and head out to do a claims adjustment. Or hop an oil train in N. Dakota and drive it. :)
Click to expand...

I certainly wouldn't say:
exec = "operations / management positions"
or
exec = "supervisor or low-level manager"
 
My daughter just graduated from college. She was recruited by a large bank. They place her as a teller on the first day. Then, throughout one year, she goes through every position at the bank and ends up at manager.

Teller--->Manager........one year.
 
I am a manager without a degree.

Even if you can't start in a management position, dedication, competence, and being a quick study, will help you move upward very quickly.
 
You would be better off to find a job and start working than spend time in leadership classes at community college.

It is difficult, early on, to get the career path all lined up and simple to follow. Sometimes during the early years you take what you can get. My first job was nowhere near what I wanted to do, but it was with a great company that had lots of opportunity.

Loved every minute of it.
 
The reality is that college has no bearing on whether you can act as a manager or supervisor, that is in your personality, not your education. Can you lead people? Can you give them critical advise, can you spot their errors and correct them? Can you make sure the duties assigned to your position, which includes all of the jobs your subordinates do in support of attaining a fulfilled status to those duties, get done in a timely and efficient manner? Can you settle petty interpersonal disputes, or at least dispose of them from the job site? Can you understand other people's ideas and critically evaluate them for effectiveness?

These are the questions you must be able to answer yes to to be an effective supervisor/manager. It is difficult with little experience and exposure to be entrusted with these positions with high stakes on the line, the potential costs you can create are astronomical. Unless you were 'groomed' for the position, you aren't likely going to get it with no prior management experience. This is where the Military, McDonalds, and WalMart come into the picture. They offer management/leadership opportunity (McDonalds even offers franchise ownership opportunities) to everyone who shows the ability and drive. Manager at McDonalds is real world management experience on a resume.

Lets come back to "grooming", this is the path you need to focus on. You need to get to someone in the position you want to be in and show real interest, show some determination, and talk them into hiring you as their assistant. Be fun, be engaging, smile, and be enthusiastic about the duties you are assigned regardless what they are.

The most efficient way into the job you want is to be taught it by someone who is doing it. Pick a good master and be an ingratiating apprentice, work hard and more importantly work smart. It is a small industry, in 10 years in such a position, you will be known by enough that setting off on your own to grow into the top slot will be a viable career path.
 
Henning said:
The reality is that college has no bearing on whether you can act as a manager or supervisor, that is in your personality, not your education. Can you lead people? Can you give them critical advise, can you spot their errors and correct them? Can you make sure the duties assigned to your position, which includes all of the jobs your subordinates do in support of attaining a fulfilled status to those duties, get done in a timely and efficient manner? Can you settle petty interpersonal disputes, or at least dispose of them from the job site? Can you understand other people's ideas and critically evaluate them for effectiveness?

These are the questions you must be able to answer yes to to be an effective supervisor/manager. It is difficult with little experience and exposure to be entrusted with these positions with high stakes on the line, the potential costs you can create are astronomical. Unless you were 'groomed' for the position, you aren't likely going to get it with no prior management experience. This is where the Military, McDonalds, and WalMart come into the picture. They offer management/leadership opportunity (McDonalds even offers franchise ownership opportunities) to everyone who shows the ability and drive. Manager at McDonalds is real world management experience on a resume.

Lets come back to "grooming", this is the path you need to focus on. You need to get to someone in the position you want to be in and show real interest, show some determination, and talk them into hiring you as their assistant. Be fun, be engaging, smile, and be enthusiastic about the duties you are assigned regardless what they are.

The most efficient way into the job you want is to be taught it by someone who is doing it. Pick a good master and be an ingratiating apprentice, work hard and more importantly work smart. It is a small industry, in 10 years in such a position, you will be known by enough that setting off on your own to grow into the top slot will be a viable career path.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your good advice Henning. Not everyone is cut out to be a leader and like you stated, a leader is determined by his personality, not by his education.
 
Is every "officer" really superior to every "enlisted person" in the military?

You basically become an "officer" by having a college degree, correct?
 
dans2992 said:
Is every "officer" really superior to every "enlisted person" in the military?

You basically become an "officer" by having a college degree, correct?
Click to expand...

In the rank structure yes...in reality no.

Having a degree and going through either College ROTC or OTS. Just having a degree does not make one an officer.
 
dans2992 said:
Is every "officer" really superior to every "enlisted person" in the military?

You basically become an "officer" by having a college degree, correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, but Non Commissioned Officers are already superervisors and managers.
 
dans2992 said:
Is every "officer" really superior to every "enlisted person" in the military?

You basically become an "officer" by having a college degree, correct?
Click to expand...


Plenty of career Master Sergeants and Master Chiefs politely telling new butter bar's where to shove it... Sir. And thinking every year... "Do I have to break in *another* one?"
 
With the exception of engineering and a very few other majors, the "core curricula" or "distribution requirements" of undergraduate degrees in the United States are designed to insure that the degrees are useless for any purpose other than enrolling in grad school. That's intentional. It serves the interests of the higher education industry to force students to spend six or eight years learning what students overseas learn in four.

For example, British physicians are allowed to practice medicine with Bachelors' degrees because they actually spend their undergraduate years studying medicine, not a liberal selection of "core" courses selected specifically because they are anything other than medicine.

This is why in the majority of cases, your Bachelor's degree, in itself, will qualify you for absolutely nothing; and your Associate's degree will qualify you for even less. The exceptions are engineering and a few specialized occupations ranging from diesel repair to nursing, which traditionally were taught in non degree-granting trade schools, but which are now taught in colleges, as well.

Other than in those cases, the primary occupational benefit of having earned a Bachelor's or Associate's degree is that it proves that you were able to endure the requisite number of years of unthinking, uncomplaining conformity spent sitting in classrooms listening to windbags droning on ad nauseam about bull**** chosen by others because they thought it was part of a well-rounded college education. This, in our perverse culture, is looked upon as some sort of achievement.

-Rich
 
Mason said:
Yes, I knew a Chief Master Sergeant with a PhD. It was fun to watch him handle the LT.
Click to expand...


A friend retired a MSgt from USAF. She decided not to play politics and stay on for a long shot at next rank. I think she retired an E-8.

I've seen Generals who wouldn't mess with HER. I know I sure as hell wouldn't ever try it.
 
You are a dumb officer if you think you know more than the E-9 (insert service specific rank here) senior enlisted leadership......or E-8/E-7 for that matter. I also don't think that is anywhere close to being the norm, particularly for O-1's who pretty much get told from every direction to STFU and color. When I was an O-3 division officer, I let my E5/E6's do their thing because I knew very very well that about the only thing I knew was how to fly a jet, and not how to run their shops. I don't think my approach was unusual by any means. I did the paperwork, they kept me in the loop, and I tried to do what I could to help them get what they needed. I wouldn't consider myself to have been a particularly outstanding DIVO, but if I knew anything, it was to let those who knew the job go ahead and do it, and to not get in the way. I was also lucky to have some really good Chiefs/Senior Chiefs/Master Chiefs who taught me the important stuff. Just my .02, not sure how relevant it is to the original topic however.
 
35 AoA said:
... particularly for O-1's who pretty much get told from every direction to STFU and color.
Click to expand...


Hahaha. I almost shot Coke out of my nose on that one. Pure awesome.

It relates to the OPs question (and young view of the world) to point out there are quite often leaders who are not bosses and bosses who are not leaders and everything in between in the adult world, and a piece of paper from a school means very very little toward being either one.

I've managed teams of young, and old, those paid better than me, and worse, some with fancy titles who couldn't think their way out of a paper bag, and some who didn't care for titles but wanted the respect of others for a job done better than everyone else.

I'm the end, go be who you want to be. If someone says you need a piece of paper to do it, jump the hoop and realize it's just that. A hoop. You can be the hoop creator's boss in little or no time at all with the right attitude and contacts. Or a rich uncle. Or just being damn smart. Or working hard to figure things out before everyone else does.

It's more about persistence than anything.
 
This is a really interesting subject.

Me personally...I graduated high school early at age 16, but had no desire to go to College. So I became an Apprentice Electrical Engineer. Following my 4-year apprenticeship I joined the oil industry. After a few years I was being given bigger and bigger projects until I decided it was time to start studying part time.

Im now 30, work as Maintenance Manager covering 4 Oilfields in Central Asia with around 140 people under me, and a BA Economics from Penn State.

Having work experience got me where I am, not my degree. Going to college straight from high school can be a problem for many people. My SO for example left high school and went to college for 7 years (2 BA's and a Masters), she is 1 year out of college now and is working in a job waaaay below her skill level purely because she has little real world working experience except for her work as a translator to pay her way through college (speaks 5 languages and has no desire to do it for a living).
 
denverpilot said:
It relates to the OPs question (and young view of the world) to point out there are quite often leaders who are not bosses and bosses who are not leaders and everything in between in the adult world, and a piece of paper from a school means very very little toward being either one.
Click to expand...

Actually, I learned in college in my I/O Psychology class that there is a big difference between being a boss and being a leader.
 
denverpilot said:
Plenty of career Master Sergeants and Master Chiefs politely telling new butter bar's where to shove it... Sir. And thinking every year... "Do I have to break in *another* one?"
Click to expand...

Very true! In the Air Force the warrants and the master sgts. Ran a lot of the show. Experience is always key. Along with a good education it's the best! Regardless of rank. Without a well trained experienced mechanical team, a combat rated pilot isn't going to fare very well. Also important is the type of degree. Math, science good , liberal arts, etc. less so.
 
Last edited:
Jimmy cooper said:
Very true! In the Air Force the warrants and the master sgts. Ran a lot of the show. Experience is always key. Along with a good education it's the best! Regardless of rank. Without a well trained experienced mechanical team, a combat rated pilot isn't going to fare very well. Also important is the type of degree. Math, science good , liberal arts, etc. less so.
Click to expand...

I think any other solution to running a mx squadron or (on the USN side) mx dept would result in failure. That having been said, I have also seen a mx department really struggle hard following the turnover of more senior E-7/E-8's for a fresh batch of (comparatively) junior E-7's without much platform specific experience. Which proves 2 points: 1) the officer leadership absolutely needed those crusty old guys with 25-30 years of experience to make it all run (surprise surprise), and 2) rank doesn't mean a thing......just because you are a 10-15 year E-7/Chief doesn't mean that you have the experience or leadership qualities to fill the job. I've seen it both ways, and the difference is staggering. I love Navy Chiefs, but they aren't all equal. The one I want knows his job, everyone else's job (because he has done them), knows how to take a problem Sailor behind closed doors and correct them, and most importantly knows to tell me to F myself when I am not doing my job right, or if I am being an idiot. This Chief is not easy to work with at first, but they will go to the end of the world to make you better if you can have a thick skin and not get upset when they treat you like a kid (which you probably are). The Chief to be wary of is the one who just says "yessir" to everything, and who ends up not being able to do their job because they are still trying to be an E5-E6 and can't stop micromanaging. You see that last effect with a decent amount of prior enlisted officers too, though I think it manifests itself a little differently, and isn't quite as apparent.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top