Iraq casualties and gun control???

[Dave Siciliano]

> Thought for the day:

>There's been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theater of operations during the past 22 months.
>The firearm death rate among our troops over there is 60 per 100,000.
>The firearm death rate on the streets of Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000.
>You are 25% more likely to be shot to death in our Nation's Capitol than in Iraq despite the strictest firearm controls >in the U.S.

>Therefore: We should immediately pull out of Washington, D.C.


===========================================

Don't know how accurate this is, but it was provocative.

Best,

Dave
Baron 322KS

 

[Anthony]

And as you note, D.C. along with NYC are the most restrictive municipalities for the LEGAL carrying of a concealed weapon. Obvioiusly, that's really working to curtail gun violence. Seems the criminals really care about that law.

 

[corjulo]

OK

So can anyone provide a link proving those numbers? And do those death rates reflect IED's, or just gun shots.

 

[poadeleted3]

OK

So can anyone provide a link proving those numbers? And do those death rates reflect IED's, or just gun shots.

Considering the post said "firearms death rate," I'd say that question has been answered.

 

[Greebo]

Well, as of 2002, based on some quick google stat searches, DC's murder rate was on the order of 47.something per 100,000. Assuming most of those deaths were gun related, it seems that the number quoted above is somewhat exaggerated.

HOWEVER
A more interesting comparison exists when you compare violent crime rates in cities with strict gun control laws vs. those which are generally permissive about gun ownership by law abiding citizens:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004902.html
2002, murders per 100,000
Washington, DC: 45.9 - Extremely restrictive of gun ownership. AFAIK strictest in the nation.
Miami, FL: 17.1 - Concealed carry permits easily obtained
New York: 7.3 - Heavy gun control but also, in 2002, VERY aggressive policing
Baltimore: 37.7 - also extremely restrictive (trying to catch up to DC)

I don't know the gun control laws in all the different cities in those links, but TX I know is very open for gun ownership. What about PA? Philly and Pittsburgh are much lower than DC.

Gun control kills law abiding citizens. Criminals don't obey gun laws.

 

[poadeleted3]

snip

I don't know the gun control laws in all the different cities in those links, but TX I know is very open for gun ownership. What about PA? Philly and Pittsburgh are much lower than DC.

Gun control kills law abiding citizens. Criminals don't obey gun laws.

Pennsylvania is one of the "shall issue" states. After a background check, they are required by law to issue a concealed carry permit. Florida was one of the first to do this. If you want to see something interesting sometime, research Florida's violent crime rate, or that of any state with "shall issue" laws, before the law's enactment, and after.

 

[Anthony]

I don't know the gun control laws in all the different cities in those links, but TX I know is very open for gun ownership. What about PA? Philly and Pittsburgh are much lower than DC.

Gun control kills law abiding citizens. Criminals don't obey gun laws.

PA is a "shall issue" state, meaning if you do not have anything in your backgorund to preclude carrying a concealed weapon, the must issue the permit, even in Philly and P'burgh. However, after there were a number of gang shootings last year, "Mayor" Street slowed down the issuing of permits by creating illegal bureacratic hurdles as a method to control gang shootings. Like the gangsters, who can't get permits due to their police records, are applying for permits. Duh.

 

[poadeleted3]

PA is a "shall issue" state, meaning if you do not have anything in your backgorund to preclude carrying a concealed weapon, the must issue the permit, even in Philly and P'burgh. However, after there were a number of gang shootings last year, "Mayor" Street slowed down the issuing of permits by creating illegal bureacratic hurdles as a method to control gang shootings. Like the gangsters, who can't get permits due to their police records, are applying for permits. Duh.

Well, Anthony, being as how Mayor Street isn't much less of a criminal than the gangsters, we shouldn't be surprised that his actions don't affect the bad guys

 

[Anthony]

Well, Anthony, being as how Mayor Street isn't much less of a criminal than the gangsters, we shouldn't be surprised that his actions don't affect the bad guys

Yes he actually does have a record of convictions for street brawls and income tax evasion. In Philly, its a prerequisite that you are a felon if you are to be Mayor. Just another badge of honor for the City of Brotherly Love. Please, don't get me started. But, hey, he's got good company. What was the name of the Mayor of DC that was a crack dealer? Didn't he get reelected after the conviction? Hah!

 

[woodstock]

I'd still rather walk around DC than anywhere in Iraq.

I wonder what the stats would be if they controlled for the worse parts of DC, vis a vis the best parts? i.e. how much of that is in Southeast, versus Northwest, etc. they could probably concentrate it down into one quadrant of DC and the numbers wouldn't change much. or vice versa - pick a different quadrant and it would be vastly different.

 

[corjulo]

We can beat that.. In Connecticut the republican mayor of Waterbury went to prison for having sex with an 10 and 11 year old. Top that.

 

[Anthony]

We can beat that.. In Connecticut the republican mayor of Waterbury went to prison for having sex with an 10 and 11 year old. Top that.

That's disgusitng. Especially for a Republican.

 

[woodstock]

Yes he actually does have a record of convictions for street brawls and income tax evasion. In Philly, its a prerequisite that you are a felon if you are to be Mayor. Just another badge of honor for the City of Brotherly Love. Please, don't get me started. But, hey, he's got good company. What was the name of the Mayor of DC that was a crack dealer? Didn't he get reelected after the conviction? Hah!

the people get what they ask for/deserve.

 

[AdamZ]

That's disgusitng. Especially for a Republican.

Hey Anthony thanks for the morning chuckle.

As for Philly It was not nearly as easy to get a carry permit as it is in say Montgomery County or any of the suburban or rural counties. Now keep in mind that there is a big difference between gun ownership and getting a permit to carry a concealed weapon. I don't think Philly could prevent ownership but has been pretty tough if IIRC on issuing carry permits. Earlier this year there was a streak of murders. It got so intense they called some kind of summit. I recall a few months ago some poor lady from the burbs getting off a SEPTA bus to just go to work got gunned down while getting off the bus in the city. These people are smacked A$$es.
Anthony do you remember Police Commissioner Timoney. Now there was a guy who didn't take any crap. Not from the criminals, not from the members of the police force and not from City Hall. Then again Sylvester Johnson did wear a wire for the Feds in their recent prob of city hall. I wonder if there isnt' a large US city where this stuff doesnt' go on.

 

[Anthony]

Hey Anthony thanks for the morning chuckle.

Anytime Adam. I found it interesting that Dan posted the party of his malfeasant poster boy in CT, while I did not mention the party of our illustrious "Mayor" Street nor DC's "Mayor" Marion Barry. Just couldn't help yourself, huh Dan?

 

[gkainz]

What was the name of the Mayor of DC that was a crack dealer? Didn't he get reelected after the conviction? Hah!

Marion Barry...the conviction was possession of cocaine.
http://www.webwombat.com.au/entertainment/humour/readfiles/barry.htm -- quotes from Mayor Barry that seem to indicate his cocaine use was not just a one time fling...

 

[Anthony]

Marion Barry...the conviction was possession of cocaine.

Oh. That's OK then. Nevermind.

 

[poadeleted3]

We can beat that.. In Connecticut the republican mayor of Waterbury went to prison for having sex with an 10 and 11 year old. Top that.

Umm.. since you seem to feel party affiliation was important enough to mention, is it safe to assume that you feel the behavior would have been appropriate from a Democrat? Or are you somehow trying to imply that Republicans condone such behavior? What, exactly, are you trying to say, Dan?

 

[gkainz]

Oh. That's OK then. Nevermind.

yeah, him and a whole slice of Hollywierd...

 

[rpadula]

> Thought for the day:

>There's been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theater of operations during the past 22 months.
>The firearm death rate among our troops over there is 60 per 100,000.
>The firearm death rate on the streets of Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000.
>You are 25% more likely to be shot to death in our Nation's Capitol than in Iraq despite the strictest firearm controls >in the U.S.

>Therefore: We should immediately pull out of Washington, D.C.

Awww Dave, you've fallen victim to the famous "they" on the Internet. The formula goes like this: slap together two causally unrelated statistics and then draw an absurd, moronic conclusion. There's a real knee-slapper comparing the number of accidental deaths per physician vs. per gun-owner, and then calling for outlawing physicians. I'm sure Dr. Bruce wouldn't be amused.

Don't know how accurate this is, but it was provocative.

If anyone here wants provocative and statistics, RUN, don't walk, to the book Freakonomics.

In a situation similar to yours mentioned here, the authors examine who is safer: the child whose parents allow her to visit a friend's house with a pool, or the child whose parents ban her from visiting a friend's house with a gun in it. Click here for the answer.

Basically, it comes down to a couple of things:

1. people are awful at judging and comparing events having very small probabilities
2. people are more afraid of things they can't control. (i.e. Freak diseases? I can clean my own kitchen and feel safe, but I'm never eating a hamburger at McDonald's again because of Mad Cow Disease)


-Rich

P.S. #2 is of course why the public is afraid of our little planes

 

[Anthony]

Anthony do you remember Police Commissioner Timoney. Now there was a guy who didn't take any crap. Not from the criminals, not from the members of the police force and not from City Hall. Then again Sylvester Johnson did wear a wire for the Feds in their recent prob of city hall. I wonder if there isnt' a large US city where this stuff doesnt' go on.

Yes! Timoney is now Police Chief of Miami, FL. Another tough town. For Philly to make getting CCW permits harder is a blatant violation of PA State law.

 

[inav8r]

The likelihood of death by pool (1 in 11,000) versus death by gun (1 in 1 million-plus) isn't even close: Molly is roughly 100 times more likely to die in a swimming accident at Imani's house than in gunplay at Amy's.

hrmm, gives you something to think about...

 

[Anthony]

hrmm, gives you something to think about...

Yes! Pools should be banned or at least you should be required to go through extensive security before entering a pool. In addition, said pool shall be free of water or any other dangerous material.

I think its easier just to ban them.

 

[Tom-D]

Yes! Pools should be banned or at least you should be required to go through extensive security before entering a pool.

or all Females must get strip searched (they might be hiding some thing in that bikini.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Yes! Pools should be banned or at least you should be required to go through extensive security before entering a pool. In addition, said pool shall be free of water or any other dangerous material.

I think its easier just to ban them.

Anthony, Anthony... you're not thinking like a guv'mint guy. You tax them. And then you require a license which can be obtained only by active or retired life guards... After a thorough background check, and no concealed pools either.