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CJones

CJones

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Well, we finally have a more definite agenda for next week's trip. Rachel and I are planning on departing from Iowa early AM next Monday. We'll fly the 6 hours to NYC (probably HPN unless someone else has better recommendation). We'll spend the rest of Monday and most of Tuesday in the NYC area. Tuesday afternoon/evening, we'll depart HPN and head up to Boston. Norwood (OWD) has been requested by our ground transportation provider. We'll spend the rest of Tues, Wed, Thurs in the Boston area and plan to return to Iowa on Friday.

I know I have requested sight seeing suggestions in another thread, but what do I need to know about flying in and around the area? Is it easier IFR or VFR? Anything special that a flat-land midwestern flyer should know before venturing into yankee territory? What should I know about any 'special' airspace in the area? Any special filing/clearance/etc requirements for the area I'll be in?

Also, what's are recommendations for ground transportation in NYC? Someone said there is a train running from HPN to downtown NYC - is it possible to get a 'day' pass and ride all the trains, or ??? This will be my first time in the 'big' city, and I don't want to stick out like a HUGE sore thumb, just a little one. ;)
 
CJones said:
Also, what's are recommendations for ground transportation in NYC? Someone said there is a train running from HPN to downtown NYC - is it possible to get a 'day' pass and ride all the trains, or ??? This will be my first time in the 'big' city, and I don't want to stick out like a HUGE sore thumb, just a little one. ;)
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I've flown into TEB and ISP for access to Manhattan..

Unless you like spending $150 to land, don't use TEB.

ISP is 47 miles east of midtown on Long Island, but train service is continuous to Penn Station (34th st -- right next to Empire State Building), hotels are plentiful and reasonable, and cabs abundant. The area also has the best pizza and bagels -- better and cheaper than Manhattan (Islanders say it's the water -- Long Island is a huge sand aquifer).

As far as airspace -- my .02 is to file IFR to the Solberg VOR, cancel, then get Traffic Advisories to destination. If flying west you'll fly right over Manhattan nice and low (keep you under LGA and JFK traffic).
 
I fly into NYC alot and I always use Linden (LDJ) for quick access to the city. Landing fee is 10 bucks and I think its 6 dollars for overnights.

A quick cab to the train will cost 6 bucks I think and then the train itself costs 6 bucks and within 25 minutes ur in the city.

As far as suggestions for flying into that area, I suggest IFR but if you are flying to LDJ cancel IFR once u have it in sight or like Dan suggested, over SBJ.

If you are going to VFR it, I highly recommend flight following for that area.
 
I would use HPN. Park at Panorama, and the guys there will be glad to give you a ride to the train station (and then pick you up again), especially if you give them a $5 tip. The problem with the airports on Long Island is that the train ride is longer into the city.

The Metro North train you will pick up will get you into Grand Central Station, which puts you on the East Side in mid-town Manhattan. From there, you get the subway or bus (that you will get a daypass for, called a FunPass which gets you on any NYC public transit). Note that the FunPass is NOT valid on Metro North.

As to flying in and out: Flying IFR risks separation delays, but your biggest delays are going to be standard for traffic. Personally, I don't think it matters. Just do whatever suits your fancy. I prefer flying IFR (or at least flight following) around big airspace, so that's what I'd more likely do. If you're just flying around the city for the purposes of touring, though, you want to go VFR.
 
Flying into HPN
Pick up ATIS while still west of the Hudson.
Swing a little north of HPN. Stay below the Class B floor of 3000 ft.
Call NY Approach (126.4) as you cross the Hudson at Croton Point, about 5 miles north of the Tappan Zee bridge. (Croton Point is a finger of land sticking out about half-way across the river.)
At this point, you pretend that HPN is a Class C airport and report the ATIS and that you are landing HPN.
Turn south toward the Tappan Zee bridge and turn towards HPN after crossing to the southern ramp of the bridge.
Descend to 2000 over the city.
Usually expect runway 34.
You may have to extend your downwind all the way to the Sound. Don't let it surprise you. Otherwise, I turn base when abeam the white mound of apartments that are on final.

We use Million Air and Panorama. Both are on the OTHER SIDE of the airport from the terminal -- on the tower side. Either FBO will give you a ride to and from the train station. I don't remember what the landing fee is.
 
Taking the train into NYC from HPN.
Panorama or MillionAir will provide a ride in the van to the train station. Buy a round-trip train ticket from the vending booths at the train station because buying a ticket on the train will cost about 1/2 again the price. If the time is not rush hour, buy "Off Peak" tickets and save money again.

You end up at Grand Central Terminal. It is a beautiful building in the center of Manhattan. Just a tip: It is "mid-town" at 42nd Street. Central Park is to the north, above 59th Street and it is "up-town". ChinaTown and the Statue of Liberty are near the southern tip of Manhattan and are "down-town". Streets are numbered so that lower numbers are south and higher numbers are north. Avenues are numbered so that 1st Avenue is east and 10th Avenue is west. Lexington, Park, Madison, Avenue of the Americas are in the center, listed here east to west.

You can get directions to the subway inside the great hall of Grand Central and then go to the subway without even leaving the building. Get an all-day subway pass for each person (from a vending machine with a credit card). These passes are good for both subways and buses. When you are ready to return, take the subway or bus to Grand Central. Then, remember that you came in on the "Harlem Line" to Grand Central, so look for the "Harlem Line" to go back to the "White Plains" station. (Not New Haven or Hudson line.)
 
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For years I have been going into EWR, TEB and HPN. They are all a pain to use.

SWF is a great airport and will keep you north of all the traffic. It also does not get affected by the ground stops which go on with the metro are airports. The drive time from SWF to down town is about 1:00 to 1:15.

ISP out on Long Island is also a really good option. The drive time to the city is about the same as it is from driving in from HPN or TEB.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Then, remember that you came in on the "Harlem Line" to Grand Central, so look for the "Harlem Line" to go back to the "White Plains" station. (Not New Haven or Hudson line.)
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Aunt Peggy, the only thing I would add is that one should take the train to the North White Plains station - one stop further than White Plains. This is closer to the airport.

-Skip
 
LearDriver said:
ISP out on Long Island is also a really good option. The drive time to the city is about the same as it is from driving in from HPN or TEB.
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It may be a good option, but the drive time is definitely longer, at least whenever I've driven it.
 
Great info Peggy.
Any idea roughly how long the train ride is into Grand Central?

Last time I flew into the city (from the North East) I ended up at FRG and the FBO dropped me off
at the LIRR station 5-10 minutes away by car. Train ride was at least an hour long, then I had to catch the Subway to my destination.

I might try HPN next time I go.
 
AdamB said:
Great info Peggy.
Any idea roughly how long the train ride is into Grand Central?

Last time I flew into the city (from the North East) I ended up at FRG and the FBO dropped me off
at the LIRR station 5-10 minutes away by car. Train ride was at least an hour long, then I had to catch the Subway to my destination.

I might try HPN next time I go.
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There are two trains -- Local and Express.

Make sure you take the express on the LIRR if you want to get into the city sometime during the week.
 
There are local and express trains about every half-hour or hour depending upon the time of day. They arrive within about 5-10 minutes of each other and the local takes an extra 10 minutes or so. The local takes about 45 minutes and the express is about 35 minutes.

As mentioned, the North White Plains train station is slightly closer and the van driver doesn't need to drive into the city (White Plains) to get to it. I just didn't want to confuse matters.

If you end up at North White Plains and it seems like a time of day when a working woman might be at home, you can give me a call. We live ~ a mile from the train station.

The trains are quite comfortable and clean. There is a bathroom in every other car. Don't sit next to one. When you arrive at GCT, exit toward the front of the train to enter the terminal. (There are other exits toward the back of the train, but they are for people who know where they are going.) Likewise, if you are arriving at North White Plains, walk toward the front of the train to get to the terminal.
 
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AuntPeggy said:
Flying into HPN
Pick up ATIS while still west of the Hudson.
Swing a little north of HPN. Stay below the Class B floor of 3000 ft.
Call NY Approach (126.4) as you cross the Hudson at Croton Point, about 5 miles north of the Tappan Zee bridge. (Croton Point is a finger of land sticking out about half-way across the river.)
At this point, you pretend that HPN is a Class C airport and report the ATIS and that you are landing HPN.
Turn south toward the Tappan Zee bridge and turn towards HPN after crossing to the southern ramp of the bridge.
Descend to 2000 over the city.
Usually expect runway 34.
You may have to extend your downwind all the way to the Sound. Don't let it surprise you. Otherwise, I turn base when abeam the white mound of apartments that are on final.
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Peggy, this is great, as Chris said. I'm following along on SkyVector's NYC TAC. One question I have: Why would you call NY Approach on 126.4 at Croton Pt? You're staying below Class B and are just about to get into HPN's airspace... I'd be thinking about contacting HPN Tower on 118.575 about that point--you're getting really close in! Is NY Approach providing some sequencing service or something?? Giving you a squawk and handing you off to HPN?
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Peggy, this is great, as Chris said. I'm following along on SkyVector's NYC TAC. One question I have: Why would you call NY Approach on 126.4 at Croton Pt? You're staying below Class B and are just about to get into HPN's airspace... I'd be thinking about contacting HPN Tower on 118.575 about that point--you're getting really close in! Is NY Approach providing some sequencing service or something?? Giving you a squawk and handing you off to HPN?
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Yes. West of the Hudson the NY Approach frequency is different--I forget what it is now. So, you don't call NY Approach until you have the river in sight. (Unless you are already on Flight Following.) They will give you a squawk code and direct you to the bridge and tell you whether to expect 34 or 16. They hand you off before you get to the bridge.

HPN is so busy and gets so much airline traffic that they are treated much like a Class C airport. If you contact them directly, they will ask you to contact NY Approach. After the hand-off, usually HPN tower directs you to midfield downwind, but you might get straight-in 11 if you have a small airplane.

BTW, if NY Approach is too busy, they won't answer you, so then you have to contact tower and tell them that NY App didn't answer you.
 
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LearDriver said:
Were you using the HOV lane?
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I was using whatever lane allowed me to go the speed I wanted, or as close to it as possible. :)

I spent 18 years in New York City and used to live in Manhattan while working on Long Island, so I've driven most of the roads there a bit.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Yes. West of the Hudson the NY Approach frequency is different--I forget what it is now. So, you don't call NY Approach until you have the river in sight. (Unless you are already on Flight Following.) They will give you a squawk code and direct you to the bridge and tell you whether to expect 34 or 16. They hand you off before you get to the bridge.

HPN is so busy and gets so much airline traffic that they are treated much like a Class C airport. If you contact them directly, they will ask you to contact NY Approach. After the hand-off, usually HPN tower directs you to midfield downwind, but you might get straight-in 11 if you have a small airplane.

BTW, if NY Approach is too busy, they won't answer you, so then you have to contact tower and tell them that NY App didn't answer you.
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Northwest of Croton point is Liberty area, Catskill sector on 132.75. As Peggy mentioned, while HPN is charted as a class D airport, it operates as a class C airport. There are a few political reasons why it hasn't been classified as class C airspace yet, but that is another long story.
 
Well we got back from our NYC/Boston trip around 2am this morning.

Going from MUT to OWD we started out VFR at 11,500' until our mid-way fuel stop when we ended up above a fairly solid layer. I got an IFR clearance to pop through to the bottom at which point we got rocked around HARD! We stopped at 4G4 for fuel (cross Ohio off the 'to-do' list ;)) and I went ahead and filed IFR to get back through on top to continue what I hoped to be a smooth flight with strong tailwinds. Climbing back up to 11k, we were right in the tops of the clouds (man, they built up FAST!) with temps around 18*F. We went into one cloud deck and got a nice 1/8" or so of ice REALLY fast, so I requested lower (it was warm down low, and there was no way I could climb above the tops without O2). Ended up a 7k and we were in-and-out of the soup with more reasonable temps. I had filed 4G4 D-> HPN with the intent of cancelling IFR once I got close to NY and drop low and skirt around to HPN. Well, I didn't get that chance. As soon as I cleared Williamsport, I was given a god-awful reroute with 5-6 fixes and 4-5 V-airways. Yeehaw! Got the first fix in and tracked and went about putting the rest of the plan into the GPS. We were in clear air now, but we were getting rocked around really hard again. We were only 45mins out from HPN, so I didn't want to try to climb above the haze layer just to be dropped back down in a few miles anyway, so I asked for lower. Ended up at 5k then they wanted me at 3k and eventually 2k, but we didn't get out of the bumps until we were on the ground and parked. We got the 'Sound Visual 34' approach, which was pretty cool. Probably the highlight of the final leg was when I was handed off to tower and was told "N277DL, try to square off your base as much as possible. You are #2 behind a Cirrus turning final for 29 and he's about 30kts slower than you." :D :D :D I said "Ohhhhkay. We'll slow it down a bit, then." :D :D Got slowed down to ~100kts and did a nice 'square' turn to final and still caught up with the Cirrus at the ramp. ... it's the little things in life ... ;)

Going from HPN to OWD, there was some rain, but the ceilings were high, so I decided to VFR it so I could dodge weather/bumps more easily. Got an eastbound left downwind departure off of a 29 & L intersection take-off. Handed off to NY Dep and wasn't really sure when I could turn back toward OWD. After passing the shoreline, I asked NY Dep if I could proceed on-route, or if they needed me to continue out over the water and she seemed surprised to talk to me even though I had already checked in. Finally gave her my on-course heading and altitude and was given the 'ok' to continue to destination. I'm not sure how far they would have sent me out over the water if I hadn't asked. Didn't get a single hand-off on the way to OWD - simply dropped and "You can TRY XXX.XX for further advisories." We are spoiled in the midwest. Finally got to OWD where the line-guys watched me taxi-in, look for a parking spot, and tie-down from the front door of the FBO. When I filled out the fuel request form in the office, they asked if the brakes were unlocked so they could move it. I said "Uhhh, I don't think you will need to move my plane." If you're not going to attempt to come out and direct me to where you want me, then you're not going to rip my nosewheel off trying to move it later.

Coming OUT of OWD was a total cluster. Weather was bumpy/rainy/windy, but ceilings were high. I filed IFR at 4000' direct KUCP. I knew I wouldn't get direct, but I figured they would give me a departure gate and it wouldn't be a big deal. In the plane, call up C.D. and "Uhhhh, you can't go direct, I'm gonna have to work on a different routing for you." Back-and-forth with him looking for a routing for me and I finally say "I'll go in and call FSS to work something out." I ended up calling Boston ARTCC to figure out a routing. All of the routings I could find would carry me straight over BOS and back north before turning west, and I knew that's not what they wanted. He looked around for a while and finally came up with "GLYDE V292 SAGES V408 LHY V58 FQM". Apparently nobody departs KOWD and goes westbound because he had to look for a while to come up with that route. FINALLY got a clearance out of OWD and we were on our way.... straight into 50kt winds right on our nose. :( Had to divert 10* for that big line of thunderstorms pushing through the area last night, but other than that it wasn't too bad of a flight. Once we cleared the storm-line (which ended up requiring holds for airliners), it was clear, smooth, and decreasingly windy. Shortly after clearing SAGES, we were given direct FQM direct KUCP. Woohoo! That cut a little of a corner at least. Landed at UCP for some self-serve fuel, leg stretch and potty break and piled back in the plane for the next 3+ hr leg to MUT. It was severe clear the rest of the way home, complete with over head satellite spotting. Landed in MUT around 1:45am local. Drove back to Ames this morning - in the 3hrs it took us to drive to Ames today, we flew across 3 states yesterday. This stuff is just too much fun!

Thanks for all the GREAT tips!!! By the way - Panorama does not provide van rides to the train station anymore. I hinted as hard as I could without being a jerk, but nobody even pretended to bite on the idea of a courtesy ride for us. Had to get a cab to-and-from the station. Train rides were GREAT - no traffic, no worries. Getting off of the train at Grand Central at 6pm was an eye-opener for this small-town boy. ;)

We had a great time in NYC and Boston and are already talking about what we want to do WHEN we go back. :)
 

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Sounds like a great trip, Chris!

As to Panorama, remember that you're in New York. Hinting doesn't work (haven't you noticed how thick-headed I am? ;) ), you have to directly ask for it. I haven't flown in there since August, but I had to ask for the van ride to the train. The line guys are glad to do it because you give them a tip.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Sounds like a great trip, Chris!

As to Panorama, remember that you're in New York. Hinting doesn't work (haven't you noticed how thick-headed I am? ;) ), you have to directly ask for it. I haven't flown in there since August, but I had to ask for the van ride to the train. The line guys are glad to do it because you give them a tip.
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DOH!

I don't think any of the previous posts mentioned the universal language of NYC -- TIPS!
 
CJones said:
By the way - Panorama does not provide van rides to the train station anymore. I hinted as hard as I could without being a jerk, but nobody even pretended to bite on the idea of a courtesy ride for us. Had to get a cab to-and-from the station. Train rides were GREAT - no traffic, no worries. Getting off of the train at Grand Central at 6pm was an eye-opener for this small-town boy. ;)
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If the front desk won't do it for you, just go back to line service and directly ask them there. They are happy to drive you to the station...they need the tips.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Sounds like a great trip, Chris!

As to Panorama, remember that you're in New York. Hinting doesn't work (haven't you noticed how thick-headed I am? ;) ), you have to directly ask for it. I haven't flown in there since August, but I had to ask for the van ride to the train. The line guys are glad to do it because you give them a tip.
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dmccormack said:
DOH!

I don't think any of the previous posts mentioned the universal language of NYC -- TIPS!
Click to expand...

HPNPilot1200 said:
If the front desk won't do it for you, just go back to line service and directly ask them there. They are happy to drive you to the station...they need the tips.
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Well, I started with the line guy that came out when we taxied up:

Me: "Hey.. Is there any chance we can get a ride over to the train station, or what's the best way to get there?"
Him: "Ask at the front desk. They will get you fixed up."

Then I asked the guys in the line guy office:
Me: "What do I need to do to get a ride over to the train station?"
Them: "Ask up at the front desk, they'll call a cab. It's about $20 to get you there."

Then I asked at the front desk:
Me: "Hi. Is there any way I can get a ride over to the train station or anything?"
Her: "I can call you a cab."

I must not get it. Do I have to say "Hey! Here's $10 for the first person to get me to the train station!!!" ?? ;)
 
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