Interesting lesson today

[Tomahawk674]

Hello everyone, for those who are bored, I'm gonna tell you about my interesting and fun lesson today.

The last couple of lessons I've just been doing touch and goes (for those who don't know me, I can't get a medical so I always fly with a CFI for the joy of it, so it's not like I need to be working on any concept specifically).

The instructor I typically choose who is young (my age, 20s) and very down to earth wasn't aveilable, so I scheduled with another one who I hadn't met. So I went today and met the guy, who turned out to be one of them older military pilots, oh boy!

I was rather surprised when he wanted my all my turns to be 30 degrees back and "crisp", which he proceeded to demonstrate. Dang! I think he pulled a few G's, and this was turning to crosswind leg. So I went ahead and tried doing them all like that, but I felt kind of uncomfortable at first, I kind of felt the turns were a little aggressive for just patter work.

Then I had the little incident were I put my foot in my mouth on the radio. Tower was giving me clearance to land, and on they went about winds, gear down (a Tomahawk, "sigh" gear is always down) and when I thought they were done I jumped in and acknowledged, but they weren't done, they said one more thing and then said "cleared to land", I felt like an idiot.

Then another interesting fact was that once on base, I pulled some flaps out and when on final I was going to pull out the rest but he said that I had already pulled them all out, and that I had probably not retracted them all on the previous T&G run. So we came in, and the approach seemed a little fast, and I had a rough landing. Turns out I hadn't pulled flaps all out, and we landed with half the flaps...

So we went once more, meanwhile fighting a small crosswind, and brought her back in. It was an enjoyable experience aside the interesting details I mentioned, but the guy was really great, and his flying method brings a new approach to flying I wasn't very accustomed to. He seems to be a very good instructor, in his military sort of way hehe.

Hope you liked my story!

 

[SkyHog]

Nice. Seems the CFI goofed a few times, but the safety of the flight was never in question, and its neat to learn what to do and what not to do from watching instructors!

Good day of flying IMHO.

 

[Dakota Duce]

For those who don't know me, I can't get a medical so I always fly with a CFI for the fun of it.

You can't get a medical because..? Is it because you failed your last medical, or you haven't even tried to get a medical because you know there's no use in trying to get one knowing you'll fail anyways?

The reason I asked is.. if you've never had a medical in the first place then why not go "SP". If you've lost your medical here's something that just might work.. and from what it seems, it looks like it's legal.

"Here is a solution that was presented by the FAA at the Illinois
Safety Seminar last year in Springfield. The FAA rep was from OK. He
was part of the implementation team at that time."

"Request a single flight medical for a simple ferry flight. Almost
always granted. Dont need to make the flight, just get medical
permission for the flight. Then your last medical action is not a
failure or rejection. There was the suggestion that if you are in good
enough shape to fly LSA, then you are in good enough shape - medically
- for that single solo flight."

Once this is accomplished, then you can fly "SP" because at that point in time your legal all the way around by flying "SP" on your drivers license.

** "The above is in NO way, shape or form legal advice!".. but only that which was stated by the FAA Rep from OK.

Dakota Duce

"May All Your Flights Be Of Good Weather!"

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Then I had the little incident were I put my foot in my mouth on the radio. Tower was giving me clearance to land, and on they went about winds, gear down (a Tomahawk, "sigh" gear is always down)

He seems to be a very good instructor, in his military sort of way hehe.

Hope you liked my story!

It's not uncommon for the tower to take 2 extra seconds to give winds if they're getting to significant levels but, what's this about "gear down"?

 

[Tomahawk674]

Oh, the thing about "gear down" is that they automatically says "check gear down" when giving landing clearances, but we're in a Tomahawk... our gear doesn't retract. It's like they say it automatically even if doesn't apply for us, waste of words. Well who am I to talk, I cut them off like an idiot hehehe.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Oh, the thing about "gear down" is that they automatically says "check gear down" when giving landing clearances, but we're in a Tomahawk... our gear doesn't retract. It's like they say it automatically even if doesn't apply for us, waste of words. Well who am I to talk, I cut them off like an idiot hehehe.

Yeah, I just never heard a tower say that. I wonder if they forgot, if they'd be liable for a gear up landing?!? Fuel status inquiry before take off roll next?

 

[Matthew]

KSTJ is has a big air national guard presence. I've noticed some differences between military and civilian controllers. Don't the military controllers normally ask to verify gear down?

 

[gismo]

Yeah, I just never heard a tower say that. I wonder if they forgot, if they'd be liable for a gear up landing?!? Fuel status inquiry before take off roll next?

The "Check Gear Down" is a military thing.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

The "Check Gear Down" is a military thing.

Yes it is. I went on a tour of RAPCON and the tower at WRI a few years ago. There was a KC-10 doing VFR patterns. After each T&G the tower told him to report on base, and I noticed that when he reported his base leg, he also reported "gear down".

 

[tonycondon]

making crisp 30ish degree bank turns in the pattern (especially downwind to base) is pretty good operating procedure, imo. get the turn over with, keep your attention on the runway, stay coordinated. especially with strong winds, a shallow banked turn from downwind to base is going to put you waaaay too far out on final. Finishing the turn quick and then getting set up on base gives you a chance to make a nice comfy shallow banked turn onto final, which I advocate in power.

 

[Tomahawk674]

making crisp 30ish degree bank turns in the pattern (especially downwind to base) is pretty good operating procedure, imo. get the turn over with, keep your attention on the runway, stay coordinated. especially with strong winds, a shallow banked turn from downwind to base is going to put you waaaay too far out on final. Finishing the turn quick and then getting set up on base gives you a chance to make a nice comfy shallow banked turn onto final, which I advocate in power.

I see your point. But his guy also wanted 30 degrees of bank from base to final, which I admit I was a little nervous about making. I think it's the combination of low speed, Flaps, low altitude, and making a tighter turn than I'm used to, fears of going into a stall/spin even if they are remote.

 

[tonycondon]

Well at 30 degrees of bank your stall speed is increased by a factor of 1.1ish, so 10 percent. On final, all set up, your speed should be 30% above stall, and at the turn from base to final, before final power/flap settings, your speed will be a little higher than that, so you are probably sitting anywhere from 1.4 to 1.5 your stall speed. Make the "tight" turn, your not going to stall it. as long as you keep your speed, stay coordinated, you will grow to like it (as your instructor has) because you spend a fraction of the time turning as you used to and way more time watching your glide angle to the runway/other traffic, etc. the biggest problem with turning is that usually when you are turning, the only thing you are worried about is turning. get it over with and get on with the task at hand.