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vxmine

Filing Flight Plan
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James T
Well, I think I've got the bug. I've always been interested in flying, but have never been serious enough (or had the time/money). However, now that I've been really doing research on it I think I'm ready.

Being a complete newbie, I have a lot of questions. Any advice help you can provide is greatly appreciated, so I will just start with a couple.

  1. Choosing a flight school - How much should I shop around? There are a few in my area and I sat down with an instructor the other day and he seemed experienced enough and generally interested in teaching me. I did get the feeling of walking on to a car lot though, I don't know why? Instructors just hanging out waiting for people like me to come in? I will say it was windy and overcast, so no one was flying.
  2. Ground school - I just saw a thread that ground school can be done on your own? Is this recommended or should I just pay the instructor to "help" me with this area. I don't mind paying for a worthwhile service.
  3. Cost/Time - This instructor quote an average cost of 7k (Cessna 172) and he usually likes to get about 50-60hrs from his students. Is this ok? I know they're trying to make a living, but I want to be able to identify "new guy" red flags.
I am in the very first stages of this adventure (researching how to get started!). I read Capn Ron's sticky and it helps a lot.

Finding this site was great and has really helped me answer some internal questions.

Thanks in advance.

James
 
Welcome to PoA.
1) Shop until you are comfortable. You will be spending a lot of time with them.
2) I took it through the community college and enjoyed the interaction. It is not hard material, if you are a decent test taker, though and you can use your instructor for questions and filling in the holes.
3) everyone is different. It takes you what it takes you. Most people take around 60 hours, I hear and I certainly did.
 
Good questions, welcome to PoA.
I went with the light sport first because I wanted to fly my wife while training for private license.
I shopped schools until I was comfortable with what I felt. The first two lessons with an ex airline pilot, great guy. He got sick so they asked me if I would fly with this other guy. Ok. So after a few hours and getting comfortable with each other we get into hey what did you do what are your dreams kind of discussions. Turned out he was 22 years old fresh out of Cfii training and I was his FIRST student. He was awesome. We became good friends and have kept in touch after I moved away.

The school I used, used the Gleim online ground school. I have completed several online course so this was not a big deal and I found it pretty straight forward.

When I finally took my check ride I had 63.5 hours. It is my understanding, this is the norm not the exception. 55-65 hours for private.
There will be a lot more advice/comments following.

Again, welcome aboard. Great place to learn and share.
Merry Christmas
 
Oh, and make sure your scheduling availability matches the instructor. This is what I struggled with. I told my instructor up front that most of my availability would be weekends and after work. Over time it became very apparent that he did not want to work during these hours and was expecting me to miss a lot of work (not really an option) and eventually I had to change instructors.
 
Be careful of schools asking for large deposits for a discounted rate and then the need to maintain a high minimum balance.

Pay as you go on your own budget, not theirs.
More than one airplane of the make/model you'll be flying.
If it goes down for maintenance, everything stops.
Ask to talk with a few recent graduates.
 
Hello DaytonaLynn,

I work in Sugarland and had been doing research on starting soon. Where did you do your training? Anson?

DaytonaLynn said:
Good questions, welcome to PoA.
I went with the light sport first because I wanted to fly my wife while training for private license.
I shopped schools until I was comfortable with what I felt. The first two lessons with an ex airline pilot, great guy. He got sick so they asked me if I would fly with this other guy. Ok. So after a few hours and getting comfortable with each other we get into hey what did you do what are your dreams kind of discussions. Turned out he was 22 years old fresh out of Cfii training and I was his FIRST student. He was awesome. We became good friends and have kept in touch after I moved away.

The school I used, used the Gleim online ground school. I have completed several online course so this was not a big deal and I found it pretty straight forward.

When I finally took my check ride I had 63.5 hours. It is my understanding, this is the norm not the exception. 55-65 hours for private.
There will be a lot more advice/comments following.

Again, welcome aboard. Great place to learn and share.
Merry Christmas
Click to expand...
 
vxmine said:
Well, I think I've got the bug. I've always been interested in flying, but have never been serious enough (or had the time/money). However, now that I've been really doing research on it I think I'm ready.

Being a complete newbie, I have a lot of questions. Any advice help you can provide is greatly appreciated, so I will just start with a couple.

  1. Choosing a flight school - How much should I shop around? There are a few in my area and I sat down with an instructor the other day and he seemed experienced enough and generally interested in teaching me. I did get the feeling of walking on to a car lot though, I don't know why? Instructors just hanging out waiting for people like me to come in? I will say it was windy and overcast, so no one was flying.
  2. Ground school - I just saw a thread that ground school can be done on your own? Is this recommended or should I just pay the instructor to "help" me with this area. I don't mind paying for a worthwhile service.
  3. Cost/Time - This instructor quote an average cost of 7k (Cessna 172) and he usually likes to get about 50-60hrs from his students. Is this ok? I know they're trying to make a living, but I want to be able to identify "new guy" red flags.
I am in the very first stages of this adventure (researching how to get started!). I read Capn Ron's sticky and it helps a lot.

Finding this site was great and has really helped me answer some internal questions.

Thanks in advance.

James
Click to expand...

3. The more often you train, the cheaper it is. Over the summer I trained 4 times a week and got my PPL in 42.0 hours.
 
vxmine said:
Well, I think I've got the bug. I've always been interested in flying, but have never been serious enough (or had the time/money). However, now that I've been really doing research on it I think I'm ready.

Being a complete newbie, I have a lot of questions. Any advice help you can provide is greatly appreciated, so I will just start with a couple.

  1. Choosing a flight school - How much should I shop around? There are a few in my area and I sat down with an instructor the other day and he seemed experienced enough and generally interested in teaching me. I did get the feeling of walking on to a car lot though, I don't know why? Instructors just hanging out waiting for people like me to come in? I will say it was windy and overcast, so no one was flying.
  2. Ground school - I just saw a thread that ground school can be done on your own? Is this recommended or should I just pay the instructor to "help" me with this area. I don't mind paying for a worthwhile service.
  3. Cost/Time - This instructor quote an average cost of 7k (Cessna 172) and he usually likes to get about 50-60hrs from his students. Is this ok? I know they're trying to make a living, but I want to be able to identify "new guy" red flags.
I am in the very first stages of this adventure (researching how to get started!). I read Capn Ron's sticky and it helps a lot.

Finding this site was great and has really helped me answer some internal questions.

Thanks in advance.

James
Click to expand...

James, I started and stopped training several times over 10 years. The third time I just bought a trainer type aircraft a Cherokee 140 and hired a CFI for $12 per hour out of the newspaper just like I would hire any employee. We flew most every day and I got my license in about 40-50 days.

I only paid $20k for the plane and kept it for 7 years and flew it over 1100 hrs. The cost per hour worked out a great deal less than any rental.

If you do not have the interest or means to own a plane yet you might consider either a partnership or a flying club which are the most cost effective ways to use an airplane.

Ground school.....get a King video or dvd and work your self through it. You fill in a request from the King school when you are done and they sign off your ability to take the written test. My CFI signed me off so I didn't need this step. He was happy with my progress and keeping up using this method.

Good Luck.

If I had 1 piece of advice it would be to schedule to fly no less than 3 times a week realizing that many days will be canceled. If you fly one hour a week or less than you will spend half your time relearning what you forgot since the last lesson. If you can fly at least 2 times a week until you solo you will be much better off.
 
Welcome!

Choosing a flight school - How much should I shop around? There are a few in my area and I sat down with an instructor the other day and he seemed experienced enough and generally interested in teaching me. I did get the feeling of walking on to a car lot though, I don't know why? Instructors just hanging out waiting for people like me to come in? I will say it was windy and overcast, so no one was flying.
Click to expand...
Is there anyone you know in aviation who can make a recommendation? Where are you located? If you hang around the airport and chat with enough people, you'll get a sense of who the well-respected/highly-recommended instructors are there.

Ground school - I just saw a thread that ground school can be done on your own? Is this recommended or should I just pay the instructor to "help" me with this area. I don't mind paying for a worthwhile service.
Click to expand...
I bought the books and did pretty much all of the ground training on my own. The only "official ground school" that I had was for the flight planning for our first XC (and then subsequent reviews of my plans for the other XC's). Get the books (I used Jeppesen), take practice tests, and you'll be good.

Cost/Time - This instructor quote an average cost of 7k (Cessna 172) and he usually likes to get about 50-60hrs from his students. Is this ok? I know they're trying to make a living, but I want to be able to identify "new guy" red flags.
Click to expand...
Both the time and price sound reasonable. As far as time goes, however, it's all about how much time you put into it on a regular basis (like others have said here). I left for my checkride with 38.9hrs and arrived at the airport where I was taking it with 40.0 - BUT, I was flying 3-5 times per week every morning before I went in to work. I know people who finished in 40 and others who took 70...the only difference between the two was how often they were flying.

One thing to be aware of is that you will get addicted to it. Once you start, you won't want to stop. It will be all you can think about when you're not in the air...
 
James-

Advice already given is good, most notably that you should try to fly often. It will save you expense in learning. I flew two to three times per week, and got my ticket at just over forty hours.

Where are you? PoA has lots of good folks, and some f them may be able to assist you in finding a good learning resource.
 
In addition to availability, schedule and other logistics, your personal learning style and predisposition towards classroom situations may determine which method of ground school and written test prep that you find most suitable.

Much of the material is cut-and-dried, but much of it may be stuff you've never had reason to think about until now. If so, and if you don't want to grind through it by yourself, the experience and perspective of a good teacher can make it a rewarding experience. Unfortunately, the opposite is also true and the pace of classroom seldom exceeds the speed of the slowest student.
 
Thanks for the all the good advice and information.

A couple of you asked where I'm located. I live in Cypress, Texas so I was looking at the Weiser airpark schools. They seem to have a good reputation and are 10 minutes from my house. They also have a decent selection of planes I can rent (152, 172, Piper something? heh).

Regarding the time, I was thinking 3-4 sessions a month to start and see where it goes from there. I agree that I would probably benefit from more sessions, but during the week would be tough. This would take me longer, but time is a factor with two young boys that need attention!

Thanks again for all the great input, I'm sure I will have more questions.

Merry Christmas!

James
 
vxmine said:
Well, I think I've got the bug. I've always been interested in flying, but have never been serious enough (or had the time/money). However, now that I've been really doing research on it I think I'm ready.

Being a complete newbie, I have a lot of questions. Any advice help you can provide is greatly appreciated, so I will just start with a couple.

  1. Choosing a flight school - How much should I shop around? There are a few in my area and I sat down with an instructor the other day and he seemed experienced enough and generally interested in teaching me. I did get the feeling of walking on to a car lot though, I don't know why? Instructors just hanging out waiting for people like me to come in? I will say it was windy and overcast, so no one was flying.
  2. Ground school - I just saw a thread that ground school can be done on your own? Is this recommended or should I just pay the instructor to "help" me with this area. I don't mind paying for a worthwhile service.
  3. Cost/Time - This instructor quote an average cost of 7k (Cessna 172) and he usually likes to get about 50-60hrs from his students. Is this ok? I know they're trying to make a living, but I want to be able to identify "new guy" red flags.
I am in the very first stages of this adventure (researching how to get started!). I read Capn Ron's sticky and it helps a lot.

Finding this site was great and has really helped me answer some internal questions.

Thanks in advance.

James
Click to expand...

1, Hard call to make, not sure how many options and at what range. You want to find a school that has a sufficient quantity of aircraft to cover the student load so you don't run into scheduling conflicts and 3 months down because their one plane is down. Proximity makes a difference as well, if the airport is nearby, you have more opportunity to get in a lesson or flight before or after work or during lunch. Then there is also variety of aircraft to consider, even if you decide to do all your training in one type, once you have your ticket, very likely this is the place you'll continue renting from. I learned where we had a large variety of airplanes and by the time I finished my PP (at 40hrs, as did most everyone at the school I learned at 20 years ago) I was checked out to rent anything they had with a single engine.

2. Ground school? Personal choice, what environment do you find most efficient for learning? My ground was self directed reading and one on one with my CFI before and after flights.

3. Cost, $7000k is exactly twice what I hapapain 20 years ago all in by the time I had my ticket flying a 152, and if he's figuring that for 50-60hrs in a 172, that indicates a pretty fair pricing structure. 60 hrs may be average now, but strive, study and work to get it done in 40hrs. Note, if you don't fly at least three times a week, you aren't working hard enough to make it in 40 so it will take/cost more.

Outside of that, relax, have fun, look out the windows a LOT and Trim, Trim, Trim. The most important control in the cockpit is the trim wheel.
 
vxmine said:
Thanks for the all the good advice and information.

A couple of you asked where I'm located. I live in Cypress, Texas so I was looking at the Weiser airpark schools. They seem to have a good reputation and are 10 minutes from my house. They also have a decent selection of planes I can rent (152, 172, Piper something? heh).

Regarding the time, I was thinking 3-4 sessions a month to start and see where it goes from there. I agree that I would probably benefit from more sessions, but during the week would be tough. This would take me longer, but time is a factor with two young boys that need attention!

Thanks again for all the great input, I'm sure I will have more questions.

Merry Christmas!

James
Click to expand...

You need to do that weekly.
 
BillTIZ said:
Be careful of schools asking for large deposits for a discounted rate and then the need to maintain a high minimum balance.

Pay as you go on your own budget, not theirs.
More than one airplane of the make/model you'll be flying.
If it goes down for maintenance, everything stops.
Ask to talk with a few recent graduates.
Click to expand...

While caution is certainly indicated, 'Block Rate' is a long standing tradition at many good flight schools. I got 10% off by depositing $500 at a time on account, and I could run that to nothing before reupping. Asking for modest deposits from $500-$1000 for a 10% discount at a school that has been around for a while is not something that turn me away.
 
Henning said:
While caution is certainly indicated, 'Block Rate' is a long standing tradition at many good flight schools. I got 10% off by depositing $500 at a time on account, and I could run that to nothing before reupping. Asking for modest deposits from $500-$1000 for a 10% discount at a school that has been around for a while is not something that turn me away.
Click to expand...

I agree, but be careful with what is offered and the reputation of the school.

How about a $5000 deposit and the need to keep the balance above $2000 to get a 5% discount benefit.

There have also been schools that offer financing, get you on the hook for a full training loan, redeem the loan into your account and then close their doors and clean out the account. Leaving the student with a loan to pay and no services provided.
 
BillTIZ said:
I agree, but be careful with what is offered and the reputation of the school.

How about a $5000 deposit and the need to keep the balance above $2000 to get a 5% discount benefit.

There have also been schools that offer financing, get you on the hook for a full training loan, redeem the loan into your account and then close their doors and clean out the account. Leaving the student with a loan to pay and no services provided.
Click to expand...

Not on your life, I'd run from that, the terms I listed are the only terms I would accept and are standard in the industry among the players that run a fair game. As soon as you leave that standard, I throw a caution flag on the entire operation.

I would not finance an aviation education, however for those that do, you need to take control of the disbursement.
 
James, I'm new too and will be starting next year. I'm by I-10 & 610 area and work in Sugar Land. Will likely train in Sugarland airport or Pearland Regional. Hope to connect with other newbies as well.

vxmine said:
Thanks for the all the good advice and information.

A couple of you asked where I'm located. I live in Cypress, Texas so I was looking at the Weiser airpark schools. They seem to have a good reputation and are 10 minutes from my house. They also have a decent selection of planes I can rent (152, 172, Piper something? heh).

Regarding the time, I was thinking 3-4 sessions a month to start and see where it goes from there. I agree that I would probably benefit from more sessions, but during the week would be tough. This would take me longer, but time is a factor with two young boys that need attention!

Thanks again for all the great input, I'm sure I will have more questions.

Merry Christmas!

James
Click to expand...
 
Sharp flight students can get their PPL in 40 hours flat. Must be highly prepared for all lessons.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Sharp flight students can get their PPL in 40 hours flat. Must be highly prepared for all lessons.
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While true, that seems rare. It certainly has happened. It also requires a top-notch instructor.

It's not all preparation. There are some physical actions to learn, and that's where age and natural ability come in.

Virtually all pilots find out at some point in their training that they aren't exceptional. For instance, I'm a musician and I thought I could transfer some of the techniques from that into flight training. You can't (at least, not cost effectively); musicians' time is cheap, and a musician gets precise by practicing for 1000 hours a year or more. I'm also a Ph.D. (helpful for the book learning, not beyond that) and pretty good on a desktop simulator (very limited use for primary training, but it can help with navigation and memorizing procedures).

Training has its ups and downs (both literally and figuratively). It's a significant challenge, and IMO very much worth it. There are several milestones that will really make it worth it. First unassisted landing, first solo, first cross-country, first landing at a large airport (especially with jets), first landing at a really small airport, checkride, first passenger, first mountain crossing, etc. But you will get stuck somewhere, most likely, probably at landing. The challenge is getting over that hump.
 
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LDJones said:
Assuming lessons fairly close together. Once a week probably wouldn't accomplish it.
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How about two lessons a day, say one in the morning and one in the afternoon? would that improve retention over a week where you might train only one or two days?
 
The time to learn to do anything, and especially flying, correlates quite closely with how often you train. Train less often and it will not only take longer in calender time, but will take longer in actual training time. Most people learn better through repetition. Flying is very much that way. If you have more time between lessons, the time to learn is longer. I trained twice a week, on saturday and sunday, but for all intensive purposes I think it was just as if I trained once a week. I think I would have been better if I trained twice a week once on sunday and once on thursday. In the end it did not matter, as I did not get fustrated and enjoyed my training. And for me thats what counted.
 
LandSickness said:
How about two lessons a day, say one in the morning and one in the afternoon? would that improve retention over a week where you might train only one or two days?
Click to expand...

Two lessons a day were nice for me, occasionally I'd get in 3 and do my studying on the flight school couch between flights or hang out in the Maint shop talking to the IA as he worked and sticking a finger where it was needed (that got me a "Hey, you want a job here?", "Sure" which lead to me owning and flying a Travelair for ridiculously low costs for a couple of years as I never paid for maintenance and got a lot of free fuel as well). Typically I'd do that 2 consecutive days a week for my PP. I completed my checkride with 41.5TT.
 
Good input on the lesson frequency. I don't mind extending my lessons out and paying a little more to get more time with an instructor. This is purely hobby and recreation for me so I am in no rush.

This is good discussion though, it makes me think about the time investment needed to retain knowledge and experience without having to repeat lessons and "relearn" to many things.
 
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