Intensive CFI

Danos

Danos

Line Up and Wait
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Mar 14, 2007
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668
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New York City
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i And I Survive
I'm just exploring my options here. Do any of you have experience with intensive CFI courses? If so what are your thoughts (good idea/bad idea) and suggestions as to where a good course could be found.?
 
i dont have any experience. I did my CFI at a 141 school in about 2 months. Commercial checkride was October, CFI in December. That was intensive enough for me. CFI requires a pretty deep knowledge base and you need time for that to sink and, time to ask good questions, come up with good explanations.
 
I looked into and received fantastic feedback on references I dug up on a guy. I had planned to go to until other problems blew that out of the water beyond my control. I didn't ask for references. I just started calling around to whatever office I could locate at a few airports I knew he had worked around. One reference had said the FSDO saw from him the best prepared candidates in the region.

As of last fall, he was charging $5500 for two solid weeks of his time, one-on-one, all day long. That included flight time as well as facilitating the spin training and endorsement.

Danos, I'll PM his name and number.
 
14 days of training including a complex airplane for $5500? Sounds pretty cheap. Gotta figure at least 20 hours of flight time (that's at least $2500 for complex plane rental), making the instructor's rate around $200/day -- rather low, in my book. PIC would charge almost $9000 for two full weeks of training (and that wouldn't include the airplane), and my personal rate is $350 a day (probably going to $400 soon).

In any event, I see nothing wrong with an intensive CFI course as long as the instructor has a lot of experience training students, is not new to training instructors, and has a well-organized training syllabus. In addition, the trainee must be ready to cut off all home/family/job/business connections for the duration of the training period and fully devote him/herself to the task. Also, for a 2-week course, the trainee should be willing to take one day off halfway through to regenerate his/her brain/body, and that should mean paying at least the instructor's expenses (if not the regular daily rate) for that day off.
 
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It does look great. I m just waiting to hear back from them. My brother moved to KC a few months ago so I have a place to stay and transportation. Looks pretty promising.
 
Ron Levy said:
In addition, the trainee must be ready to cut off all home/family/job/business connections for the duration of the training period and fully devote him/herself to the task.
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That was exactly what I had planned and a big part of the reason I was considering another location besides near home. Unfortunately, I lost control of the funds and someone broke a promise to facilitate my plans on top of some other issues that stepped on me. :(
 
I know a lot of people have mixed feeling about ATP, but that's where I went, and I would highly recomend it. Their "CFI School" is pretty well known and does a very good job. If you do it in someplace like Phoenix (KIWA) or Vegas (KVGT) it's done almost entirely in 2003 or newer Seminoles. You can do the "Total Instructor" program, wherein you do the MEI first, then II, then SE addon, or you can do each rating a la carte. I don't know how much it runs now, but it's well worth looking at, I think.
 
As long as there is even one CFI instructor at ATP saying the stall warning horn isn't required, they won't get my vote.
 
KennyFlys said:
As long as there is even one CFI instructor at ATP saying the stall warning horn isn't required, they won't get my vote.
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I never heard that when I was there?? All the CFIs in their CFI School could quote chapter and verse of the FAR/AIM, Inst. Flying Handbook, Instructors Handbook, PTSs, etc and made sure we could too. It requires a lot of self study, but everyone I met there knew their stuff. That's not to say that every instructor all the way across the ATP system is dynomite, but they make sure the guys teaching the CFIs are up to snuff. At least, that's how it seemed to me.
 
I can only share indirect experience:

My instructor who trained me for my initial CFI did his initial CFI through an accelerated course at MN Aviation, Inc.. He was a very excellent instructor, so they must have done something right!

I'd say it also highly depends on what effort you put into it.
 
KennyFlys said:
I looked into and received fantastic feedback on references I dug up on a guy. As of last fall, he was charging $5500 for two solid weeks of his time, one-on-one, all day long. That included flight time as well as facilitating the spin training and endorsement. Danos, I'll PM his name and number.
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Can anyone post or PM me the contact info for this CFI that KennyFlys recommended to Danos?

Or do you know another independent CFI that does intensive instruction like this?

I'm looking to do my Commercial and CFI add-ons (already have Commercial and CFI in helicopters). In fixed wing I have 250 hrs and my IFR. Doing this full-time with someone really experienced would be a lot more efficient for me than driving to the airport twice a week for a few months. I'm based in Boston, but would fly anywhere to work with someone for a couple of weeks. Thanks for any recommendations!
 
I did my CFI in about two weeks while working full time. It's about knowing how to study and then learning how to teach. With discipline it doesn't take a lot of time no matter where you do it.
 
Ron Levy said:
14 days of training including a complex airplane for $5500? Sounds pretty cheap. Gotta figure at least 20 hours of flight time (that's at least $2500 for complex plane rental), making the instructor's rate around $200/day -- rather low, in my book. PIC would charge almost $9000 for two full weeks of training (and that wouldn't include the airplane), and my personal rate is $350 a day (probably going to $400 soon).

In any event, I see nothing wrong with an intensive CFI course as long as the instructor has a lot of experience training students, is not new to training instructors, and has a well-organized training syllabus. In addition, the trainee must be ready to cut off all home/family/job/business connections for the duration of the training period and fully devote him/herself to the task. Also, for a 2-week course, the trainee should be willing to take one day off halfway through to regenerate his/her brain/body, and that should mean paying at least the instructor's expenses (if not the regular daily rate) for that day off.
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It took me and 2 others 10 hours of flight time a piece from showing up to an accelerated CFI to getting signed off for the CFI initial. 20 hours seems pretty high for somebody who is already a proficient Commercial pilot (which I'm willing to bet most CFI candidates are-I saw one exception and he didn't make it through the first day of ground school let alone into an airplane).
 
Teller1900 said:
I never heard that when I was there?? All the CFIs in their CFI School could quote chapter and verse of the FAR/AIM, Inst. Flying Handbook, Instructors Handbook, PTSs, etc and made sure we could too. It requires a lot of self study, but everyone I met there knew their stuff. That's not to say that every instructor all the way across the ATP system is dynomite, but they make sure the guys teaching the CFIs are up to snuff. At least, that's how it seemed to me.
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Quoting crap out of a book ain't education.

The worst training I have ever received was from ATP Inc.

When I did mine I just self studied and tutored folks for free at a local flight school, all in my initial CFI was under 2k and I passed no prob at the FSDO.
 
jesse said:
I did my CFI in about two weeks while working full time. It's about knowing how to study and then learning how to teach. With discipline it doesn't take a lot of time no matter where you do it.
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Although mine took two months, not two weeks, from start to finish I agree with this. It was only 10 hours of flying. Aside from learning the FOI stuff there is nothing new in the CFI. I did the ground stuff on my own and spent probably 40 or 50 hours on it. Fortunately where I was working at the time we were allowed to study or read during downtime.


If you need to get your flying and knowledge back to commercial standards do that before you embark on your CFI so you can save some Monday. No point paying someone to teach you when you should be teaching them.
 
Ron Levy said:
While PIC is best known as an instrument training operation, Commercial and CFI intensive courses are also available.
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I've heard of them, but I would prefer to directly engage an independent CFI so they get all of the tuition fees, preferably one who also has a plane available at a reasonable rate. What percentage of fees do PIC pass on to their instructors?
 
Henning said:
:confused: There are lots of planes without a stall horn flying perfectly legally.
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I just flew a legal pa28r-200 today that came from the factory without a horn, and still doesn't have one.
 
GCA319 said:
It took me and 2 others 10 hours of flight time a piece from showing up to an accelerated CFI to getting signed off for the CFI initial. 20 hours seems pretty high for somebody who is already a proficient Commercial pilot (which I'm willing to bet most CFI candidates are-I saw one exception and he didn't make it through the first day of ground school let alone into an airplane).
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Commercial pilot proficiency is only a small part of CFI preparation. Proficiency at teaching is the big part, and the fact that one can do chandelles and Lazy-8's to CP PTS standards doesn't mean one is going to complete CFI training in short order.
 
rotorb said:
I've heard of them, but I would prefer to directly engage an independent CFI so they get all of the tuition fees, preferably one who also has a plane available at a reasonable rate.
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Good luck finding an independent CFI with his/her own plane to use for the training and the experience and skills necessary to conduct an intensive CFI training course.
 
10-15 hours of flying, if someone is already flying the plane (got their Commercial or has flown the plane for a while.)

The flying time in not really that important, you will spend much more time on the ground with a cfi and self-studying..
 
Ron Levy said:
Good luck finding an independent CFI with his/her own plane to use for the training and the experience and skills necessary to conduct an intensive CFI training course.
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lol ron, seriously? There are countless examples of such people.
 
What difference does it make who owns the plane? As long as it is dedicated to you for the timeframe.
 
ja_user said:
What difference does it make who owns the plane? As long as it is dedicated to you for the timeframe.
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The OP wants an independent instructor "preferably one who also has a plane available". That plane has to be complex for this purpose (initial CFI-Airplane). I don't know of any instructor who meets all the desired criteria, although Jesse seems to know "countless" such instructors, and I hope Jesse can provide some names and contact information for the OP.
 
As long as we aren't hung up on who owns this plane, I agree with Jesse. This shouldn't be difficult to find.

But I don't know any names in NYC to give.
 
I just noted that this entire thread started long ago :)
 
ja_user said:
As long as we aren't hung up on who owns this plane, I agree with Jesse. This shouldn't be difficult to find.
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Got any names of independent instructors even without a plane to use who do intensive initial CFI training? I don't know of anyone outside a flight training organization such as PIC or one of the major flight schools who does.
 
Ron Levy said:
Got any names of independent instructors even without a plane to use who do intensive initial CFI training? I don't know of anyone outside a flight training organization such as PIC or one of the major flight schools who does.
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Pretty much any experienced instructor can do it ron. I flew with an instructor twice before taking my CFI ride. I'm not sure so what you think is magical about an instructor that meets the requirements and access to a complex airplane.

I could do it, as could several other instructors in Lincoln.
 
Ron Levy said:
Got any names of independent instructors even without a plane to use who do intensive initial CFI training? I don't know of anyone outside a flight training organization such as PIC or one of the major flight schools who does.
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Several in the KC area that I could recommend. Do they full time do accelerated CFI training? No, because the steady stream of students isn't there.

There is not anything magical about training a cfi candidate 8 hours a day, versus 2 hours several times a week.


The problem with doing this with a CFI rating, is so much studying is required that you may be doing yourself a dis-service by paying a cfi for 8 hours a day when you really only need 4-6 hours and then some serious self study time before the next lesson.
 
ja_user said:
There is not anything magical about training a cfi candidate 8 hours a day, versus 2 hours several times a week.
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Magical? No. More difficult to organize? Yes. Learned that when I went to work for PIC. As an instructor, you cannot approach an intensive training program the same way you approach the "traditional" schedule. If you haven't done it before, and haven't been trained on it, your trainee will suffer greatly.
 
Ron Levy said:
Magical? No. More difficult to organize? Yes. Learned that when I went to work for PIC. As an instructor, you cannot approach an intensive training program the same way you approach the "traditional" schedule. If you haven't done it before, and haven't been trained on it, your trainee will suffer greatly.
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I've done intensive training and I find it to be by far EASIER to do as the instructor versus a bunch of spread out stuff.

You don't need a lot of an instructor's time for a CFI rating. What you do need to know how to do is study your ass off. Training a CFI candidate would be by far easier for me to do accelerated than a private or instrument.
 
jesse said:
lol ron, seriously? There are countless examples of such people.
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It's not so important who owns the plane, but I would like to find a really great instructor who can dedicate a whole week to instructing nobody but me. The good club/school instructors are usually too booked.

I'll check out MN Aviation which Kate recommended and send Jesse an email.
 
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