Insurance Question

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Mach.12

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Mach.12
Question for the forum. I recently solo'd a student. He is an older professional and fairly well to do (plans on buying a used Mooney with cash after his IFR training). I started talking to him about insurance when we started getting near his first solo.

Yesterday he did his second solo and when he was finished I asked him if was good on his insurance. He told me the FBO owner (and owner of the plane) told him (the student) that he was covered under the FBO policy.

I've had insurance since the day before I solo'd years ago, I've always understood that the FBO policy covers the FBO from liability and damage and if claims against you as the pilot are satisfied in that process then good. However, there is no requirement for the FBO insurance company to assume your liabilities and as such, I always carry insurance.

I talked to my student about this and he wont hear it. Says he is covered under the FBO policy and does not need personal insurance. I feel like I have done my due diligence as an instructor (who is younger and less professionally successful than this guy) and I am not going to raise it again.

So the question is. If he solos and has an accident, assuming he has been properly trained by me, and is found personally in error (lets say he taxis into another plane and minorly hurts someone) am I exposed?
 
As far as YOUR exposure goes, do you have a personal policy covering you for CFI liability and hull damage to non-owned aircraft when you're aboard instructing? If not, do you know if you're a named insured on the insurance policy covering the airplane?

As far as your student goes - it all depends on what the FBO's policy says. Some have a waiver of subrogation in place that means that the insurance company can't try and recoup its losses by going after the renter.

It sounds to me like there are three parties involved here - you as the CFI, the FBO as the provider of the airplane, and the Student. If you don't have any contractual relationship with the FBO, then you may be exposedfor damage to the airplane when you're teaching in it. You may also have liability for your student's actions when you're not with him.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I am covered for CFI and rental through Falcon with enough hull coverage to cover any plane I might find myself instructing in. Liability is the max with a "professional" clause.

I have not seen the documents but am told I am a named insured on the FBO insurance.

I am considered an independent contractor for the FBO.



Thanks for the answers so far.
 
sounds like you have the insurance creepies.

By having a large insurance policy you actually make yourself more desirable (think of dangling raw meat around your neck while dancing with wolves) by attorneys as they know if they can pin something on you the insurance (the meat is there) will pay out: Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding we have a winner. Where as a poor broke dick cfi student professional pilot wannabe who has nothing to take wouldn't even raise their eyebrow.

Google Judgement Proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_proof

Mach.12 said:
Question for the forum. I recently solo'd a student. He is an older professional and fairly well to do (plans on buying a used Mooney with cash after his IFR training). I started talking to him about insurance when we started getting near his first solo.

Yesterday he did his second solo and when he was finished I asked him if was good on his insurance. He told me the FBO owner (and owner of the plane) told him (the student) that he was covered under the FBO policy.

I've had insurance since the day before I solo'd years ago, I've always understood that the FBO policy covers the FBO from liability and damage and if claims against you as the pilot are satisfied in that process then good. However, there is no requirement for the FBO insurance company to assume your liabilities and as such, I always carry insurance.

I talked to my student about this and he wont hear it. Says he is covered under the FBO policy and does not need personal insurance. I feel like I have done my due diligence as an instructor (who is younger and less professionally successful than this guy) and I am not going to raise it again.

So the question is. If he solos and has an accident, assuming he has been properly trained by me, and is found personally in error (lets say he taxis into another plane and minorly hurts someone) am I exposed?
Click to expand...
 
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Tony_Scarpelli said:
sounds like you have the insurance creepies.

By having a large insurance policy you actually make yourself more desirable by attorneys as they know if they can pin something on you the insurance will pay out: Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding we have a winner. Where as a poor broke dick cfi student professional pilot wannabe who has nothing to take wouldn't even raise their eyebrow.

Look up Google Judgement Proof.
Click to expand...

I agree with Tony... When you try to cover your a$$ with extra insurance, you just become VERY attractive to any litigation, as lawyers will start seeing dollar signs and a easy pay out...... This is one of those "damned if you do : damned if you don't" situations...:mad2::mad2:..
 
Had a lawyer girl friend explain that to me long time ago....sort of about the time I learned about trusts and limited family partnerships.

Live rich die poor. I own nothing.... I have use of certain things while I am on this planet but nobody can get to them by suing me. So go ahead, make my day.
 
My school has a requirement that any one who flew their planes had to have renter's insurance. No exceptions. I doubt that will cover you should he have an accident and they decide to sue you as an instructor(though I guess your instructor's insurance would cover you), but would certainly cover the plane and I guess the loss to the school from the plane not being rentable.
 
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him get legal advice. You're covered, and you've done your part. Just make a note somewhere of your discussion with the trainee, and if anything ever happens, produce that "contemperaneous" note.
 
Becky said:
Has it really come to this? :confused:
Click to expand...
It's happened where CFIs have been sued by students who've come to grief, or by injured third parties. Ron's posted in other threads a good article about CFI liability.

From the FAA perspective, I think documentation is your best defense, showing that you gave the student the required instruction. But for civil liability, insurance is your protection.
 
TMetzinger said:
It's happened where CFIs have been sued by students who've come to grief, or by injured third parties. Ron's posted in other threads a good article about CFI liability.

From the FAA perspective, I think documentation is your best defense, showing that you gave the student the required instruction. But for civil liability, insurance is your protection.
Click to expand...

Ron Levy said:
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him get legal advice. You're covered, and you've done your part. Just make a note somewhere of your discussion with the trainee, and if anything ever happens, produce that "contemperaneous" note.
Click to expand...

Thanks...I appreciate the advice. I'm pretty diligent with the paper work regarding training and will get some type of documentation about our conversation of insurance.
 
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