Insurance/N-Number Blocking?

airdale

airdale

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airdale
I am vaguely aware that there is practice in aviation insurance where if one agent quotes you a price, the insurance company will not provide quotations for your tail number to any other agents. Right?

Does anyone have details on how this works and how to circumvent it? I would like to shop both insurance companies and agents, which this appears to make difficult or impossible.
 
It is a pretty small community, I am not sure there is any way to get around this practice. I think your best bet may to try to find an insurance agent you trust and hope he will shop it for you. It also depends on the make and model, for example you may get more interest in a KA but, little interest in a Aerostar. Depends a lot on the mood of the underwriter on that particular day. This did not answer your question but, it was the best I could do.
 
The problem as it was explained to me is that while there are tons of brokers....there are really only a couple of actual insurance companies that provide the actual coverage. So once a broker gets the quote....if you try to go to another broker, the insurance provider will say "we've already provided that quote'. As I understand it, the only way to get around that is to get a separate quote from Avemco which does not use brokers. I believe that is pretty much the limit of shopping for insurance.

Personally, I have always used Avemco and have been very happy with their coverage and service both as a renter and now as an aircraft owner.
 
Personally, I have always used Avemco and have been very happy with their coverage and service
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Yes. We have Avemco and are happy, but it's been 7 years since we shopped the business so we want to see what's out there.

But there are good agents and there are guys who do nothing except collect commission checks. That's why we don't want to locked into the first guy we happen to talk to.
 
Most insurers dont lock. I just got insurance and had to change agents mid-way. The second agent got the same quotes from the same insurers.
 
The only choice you have here is to get generic quotes for a 19XX Bugsmasher Model N, assume hull value of $XX,XXX what you want for liability coverage, and tell them you are just shopping and don't have the plane yet. The final quotes would be close to the preliminary quote.
 
Most insurers dont lock. I just got insurance and had to change agents mid-way. The second agent got the same quotes from the same insurers.
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Really? That's the first time I have heard that. Would you be willing to name the insurance companies?
 
Actually weilke is sort of correct which is what you don't like. Once an underwriter gives a quote he will not change it for another agent. In other words the quote IS locked in and it will do you no good to change agents. Every agent will get the same price on a given aircraft. Avemco is a little different in that they are the underwriter.
A generic quote won't be of much use. You can get a feel for pilot quals if you are moving up to a more expensive or complex make and model but the actual quote will again depend on the mood of that day. If you are trying to get a quote on a KA and a KA just bored a hole in the ground for as yet unknown reasons it can have a negative affect. Aviation insurance is based a lot on the whim of the day of the underwriters.
 
I have always wanted to use a bogus N-number just to see if I could shop around. Seems like restraint of trade (I realize the ins co prices won't change but the broker's cut might?)
 
airdale said:
Really? That's the first time I have heard that. Would you be willing to name the insurance companies?
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Chartis, Phoenix and Global. All three came back with the same price and the same rules (minimums, checkout, open pilot) through two different agents.

This is for a very plain vanilla plane that I have about 100 hrs in. For those situations, there is very little difference in what agents can do for you, it is pretty much a canned product. If you want to do low-level acro in a unmaintained ex-soviet jet, things will be different.
 
Once an underwriter gives a quote he will not change it for another agent.
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OK, now I'm getting confused. I understood that he would not quote to another agent. I don't mind if he doesn't change the price, I just want the option to change agents and still be able to deal with that insurance company.

I'm sure agency commissions are not going to change much but agency service is certainly going to vary.
 
Dave, I am pretty sure they will look up the N number. Going to raise a flag if you are asking for a quote on a C172 and the N number is for a G-IV:rofl:
 
airdale said:
OK, now I'm getting confused. I understood that he would not quote to another agent. I don't mind if he doesn't change the price, I just want the option to change agents and still be able to deal with that insurance company.
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You do have that option, it may require a fax instructing your new agent to inform the underwriter that you are working with him now.

I'm sure agency commissions are not going to change much but agency service is certainly going to vary.
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If both agents present the same information to the insurer, they will get the same quotes, for the generic planes, this is an automated process anyway. If you need something special, (an oddball type that only certain insurers cover, a 'big step up' like moving from a 172 to a King Air) it will require human-human interaction.
 
yabut, easy enough to find a same year and model a/c on tap and offer up that N number
 
Pretty much as Weilke says. In a small plane like maybe up through a 6 place single all the underwriters are pretty much the same. Most agent will shop the underwriters pretty quick so as to tie up that quote. Most underwriters don't give a rat's azz which agent you use. You go to a second agent he will get the same quote on that plane. Changing agents is no big deal, you just won't get any better price.
Again as weilke says when you move up it does get different. An agent can go to an underwriter with the pilot info and dicker for better terms like open pilot clauses, training requirements. Also that agent can go to the different underwriters trying to tweek your policy. However, I do not think you will see a big swing from one underwriter to another unless you are dealing with realy big stuff and then it still might not swing much.
Speciality coverage as weilke points out is another ball game meaning many times it may be tough to even get a quote (at least a reasonable quote).
Bottom line they have been at it a long time and it is hard to game the system. They are in it to make money not do you any favors.
 
I have a friend that worked as an underwriter for an aviation insurance company. Her take on it was, it's a small community of insurers, the quotes are or should be the same for each broker, the underwriters would have to requote each time it came across their desk, and to requote the same pilot 4 to 8 times each year for renewal would be very expensive, manpower wise. Aviation insurance is not like auto or home insurance is very individualized. ;)
I have used a bogus N number to get a quote from another agent, no difference that year. :rolleyes:
Bottom line, it cuts down on the work for the insurance underwriters, it's not the agents that seem to encourage the "blocking".
 
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