#@$%*!ing Cold Flying

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Feb 23, 2005
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UQACY, WI
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iMooniac
I woke up this morning and it was -4F. High for today was supposed to be 1F.

Sounds like a good day for a flight. :yes: :D

However, it's also that much more of a learning experience to push that particular part of the envelope. So, I'll tell the story and welcome comments.

The plane had been flown and was parked in a heated (though not exactly warm) hangar. I did my preflight inside. All checked out well except the nose gear inflation, which was quickly fixed. I hopped in the plane so I'd be ready to go as soon as the tow bar was off.

Same old routine - Master, beacon (though I left it off to leave max battery for the start), mixture, tank, prime, CLEAR!, start.

Well, in theory anyway.

First time, I did my normal trick of one shot of prime and then crank while putting in the second shot, which usually works great. This time, it burned through the prime fuel and then quit. Going from experience, I pulled the carb heat, then did two shots prior to cranking. It went a little longer, but still quit. Hmmm. Maybe the intake air is so darn cold it's still too lean? So, I primed, cranked, and it caught and I fed it a couple more shots with the primer when it started to sputter (at maybe 20 seconds and 1 minute after initial cranking). Then, it stayed on.

For warmup purposes, I was on the ground idling (and doing the runup) with the cowl flaps closed for 19 minutes before oil temp came off the peg. There's been debate about that, but while I won't wait for the oil temp at an OAT of 40F because I know it's reasonably warm, I will wait when it's 0F because it might be darn near solid!

After the engine started, it was at first very reluctant to speed up. Idle was low, and when I'd add just a hint of throttle, it'd start to sputter with or without carb heat. It took about 2.5 minutes before I could get it up to 1000 RPM. After I got it there, I gave it carb heat again, which after another minute or so took it up to 1300 RPM. Taking away the carb heat would drop it to 1200 RPM and over a period of about 30 seconds I could hear very small backfiring-type noises (thanks to ANR, never would have heard them otherwise). Adding carb heat again would make the noises go away, again after a short period of time.

After a while, the engine warmed to the point where it wasn't behaving "funny" any more, so I called for my clearance and taxi.

Runup was very odd. First, the mag check. Going to either mag resulted in an RPM drop of ~400 RPM, way outside normal limits, but there was no roughness whatsoever. EGT also went through the roof. My theory is that the air was so cold that due either to temperature or mixture reasons (or both), it was burning so slowly with only one mag that it was still burning on the way out. I also did a full-power runup just to be sure I really was getting full power on both mags.

Second thing about the runup that was odd... The prop. Oil must have really not wanted to move! I'd have to pull pretty far back on the knob for it to do anything, and then it'd get down to around 1200 RPM (after I was already pushing the knob back in) and just sit there for about 5-6 seconds before coming back up to full power, though it didn't sound like it was the prop causing this, but the engine itself. I don't think I have a theory for that one.

Anyway, though things were different than normal, I still felt like the engine was working well, so off I went. Still didn't manage to peg the VSI, but I got 1800 fpm sustained before I went to cruise climb. I went all the way up to 7500 feet, where the OAT was cold enough to freeze hell and the air was so thick I was actually indicating 130 KIAS. I usually get 130 KTAS in this plane, so that was impressive.

Another odd thing about the super-thick air: Full rich was lean of peak at 7500! When I began to lean, the EGT went down. Wow. It did appear that full rich was close to peak, so I did lean it just a hair.

I also had about a 45-knot tailwind component, and terminated flight following 10 miles from RAC only 24 minutes after takeoff.

Winds were 27012G24 for my landing on runway 32. In spite of that, I managed a really good landing (my pax was impressed and said so, especially after the wild ride down final).

We have no cowl plugs or engine blanket for the plane :( so I parked away from the wind with the control lock installed. There was somewhat of a wind shadow near the building as well.

Upon my return to the airport an hour and a half later, I inquired about the price of a preheat. $63! (Is it just me, or is that outrageous?) I decided to feel the cylinders first, and good thing - They were cold, but not ambient-cold. Just not quite as warm as my hands. So, I didn't get the preheat.

The engine started easier than the first time, though the primer behaved funny: When pulling it out, I could feel the fuel filling it for the first 3/4 of the stroke, then it'd pull out easier and no more fuel would enter it. Odd. After an almost identical repeat of the warming-up period from the first leg of the trip, right down to the 19 minute warmup, I took the runway for the return trip.

On the way back, I only went to 3000 MSL to stay out of the ferocious headwind (and I still only made around 100 knots GS).

Remember that full rich was lean of peak at 7500, or apparently so? Well, I decided to see if the same was true at 3000. Dumb, dumb, dumb. I'd barely touched the knob when the engine coughed and darn near quit. Scared the crap out of me! I'll need to do some hangar-flying over that one, mainly just thinking through emergencies a bit because the sense of panic was a lot greater than I'd ever imagined. Luckily, the cough lasted maybe 3 blades (=~0.1 sec @ 2400 RPM) but it was enough. Yikes. :eek:

I managed another very good gusty crosswind landing at MSN (27009G16, runway 32) and parked the plane. The line guys showed up right away to put it in the hangar, and I dragged my flight bag out to the car, which was showing an OAT of -7F at 0 AGL.

Brrrrrrrrr.
 
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Kent,
One of my primary concerns with something like that is what would have happened had you needed to set down somewhere and, God forbid, didn't have the cabin as an option to shelter you. Did you have survival gear appropriate to the situation?
 
Kent, from your description I'm pretty sure that something was seriously wrong with the carb or fuel system. Full rich mixture at 7500 should not be LOP or even anywhere near peak regardless of the OAT. If you were lean there with a full rich mixture then you were probably very lean at lower altitudes (which would explain the unusual mag drop). If I had to guess, I'd look for some frozen water in the carb or fuel system that was restricting the flow into the engine. BTW, at that low a temp, carb heat while idling on the ground won't have a chance of raising the carb temp above freezing and you probably had the same situation in the air as well.

The issue you noticed with the prop indicates that the oil in the prop hub was probably in the -20 C range or colder which makes me wonder how warm that "heated" hangar really was.
 
$63 preheats in the WI winter are like $50 umbrellas on a rainy day. Price doesn't really matter, does it???

Yikes. I like cold, but I guess airplanes don't like it so much.
 
Kent, from your description I'm pretty sure that something was seriously wrong with the carb or fuel system. Full rich mixture at 7500 should not be LOP or even anywhere near peak regardless of the OAT. If you were lean there with a full rich mixture then you were probably very lean at lower altitudes (which would explain the unusual mag drop).

Hmmm. Well, two things to note: The air was thick enough that I was indicating 130 knots all the way up there. I don't indicate 130 knots even way down low (like 3,000, which is probably the lowest I ever have that bird in cruise) on a normal day. Second, at 3,000 it didn't like to be leaned at all. Those would support your hypothesis.

The other thing is that the EGT was abnormally high (when I first reached 7500). I normally see 1300-1350 when properly leaned for cruise, while it was indicating well over 1400 this time (I've never seen it that high before). I leaned it just a little to get the EGT back down into the 1350 range. The mixture knob was only about half as far out as it normally is in cruise.

If I had to guess, I'd look for some frozen water in the carb or fuel system that was restricting the flow into the engine.

Wouldn't that have limited power output though? It still climbed like a bat out of hell.

BTW, at that low a temp, carb heat while idling on the ground won't have a chance of raising the carb temp above freezing and you probably had the same situation in the air as well.

I know that. I've had times with this plane before where I was unable to start it at all without carb heat on, and had to wait for the engine to warm up somewhat before it would stay on without carb heat. I'm guessing it was frozen moisture in the air filter or something. (We talked about this in Pilotcast 18, which I should go listen to again, because I can't remember what Tom said about that but IIRC it was "normal" to have to do that on this type of engine.) I know that at temps this cold pulling carb heat would be more likely to cause carb ice than eliminate it, but I figured that with the small backfiring noises I was hearing with the carb heat off, that complete combustion during the first part of the warmup process would only occur with it on. I also figured that incomplete combustion would not only keep the engine from warming up as fast, it might have other undesired effects (exhaust system damage, plug fouling, who knows?)

The issue you noticed with the prop indicates that the oil in the prop hub was probably in the -20 C range or colder which makes me wonder how warm that "heated" hangar really was.

The hangar was warm enough that I didn't feel the need to wear gloves, for what that's worth.

Again, I don't think the oil in the prop hub was that cold, as it didn't sound like it was the prop causing the delay in the RPM increase. I'm thinking it was more along the lines of the engine not wanting to run quite right when the throttle was so far open but the engine wasn't running that fast. Any theory to explain that?
 
Wouldn't that have limited power output though? It still climbed like a bat out of hell.

The thick air (and maybe you were lightly loaded?) could account for that.

Again, I don't think the oil in the prop hub was that cold, as it didn't sound like it was the prop causing the delay in the RPM increase. I'm thinking it was more along the lines of the engine not wanting to run quite right when the throttle was so far open but the engine wasn't running that fast. Any theory to explain that?


That's consistent with a lean mixture. Beyond that I can't say.
 
Hey Kent, do we have a winterization Kit installed on 71G? I don't remember ever seeing one on it. That may help winter performance a bit. Also I remember that at cold temps the carb doesn't like rapid power changes. I scared the crap out of myself when I got checked out in it last year on a touch and go. Pushed the throttle forward and the engine damn near quit. I was told it was doe to the carbs on the 470 being mounted relatively far from warm engine parts and the cold air intake.

Pete
 
Hey Kent, do we have a winterization Kit installed on 71G? I don't remember ever seeing one on it. That may help winter performance a bit.

No, and I'm not even sure if there is one... :dunno: I'm not sure if the last two cylinders would be properly cooled with a 172-style kit. Or, maybe we just don't have one. Who knows.

We DO need to get some cowl plugs for all the birds, though. Thanks for reminding me.

Also I remember that at cold temps the carb doesn't like rapid power changes. I scared the crap out of myself when I got checked out in it last year on a touch and go. Pushed the throttle forward and the engine damn near quit. I was told it was doe to the carbs on the 470 being mounted relatively far from warm engine parts and the cold air intake.

Yeah, I had the same experience getting checked out in it in Jan. 2005. Single digit temps, it will stumble on the go. I ended up trying to do a touch and go, aborting, full-power runup in the south holding bay, take off, around the pattern, stumble, abort, and called it quits for the day.

That's probably why the club Operational Rules prohibit touch and goes below 0 F. But you knew that, right? ;)

I wouldn't say it scared the crap out of me - Heck, I was on the ground. Pull the throttle and stay on the ground! But when it happened at 3,000 MSL... :hairraise:
 
BRRRRr yea that sure was cold Kent. It was downright balmy here outside philly today at 6F at 7AM
 
Is there a temperature below which you won't fly for the well-being of the plane? Where I trained and rented you couldn't take a plane out when it was below 10 degrees F surface. This is my first year as an owner, and if it's safe enough to fly below that number, I'd like to take advantage of the clear crisp morning air up there.....
 
Is there a temperature below which you won't fly for the well-being of the plane?

They fly in Alaska all the time...

I'd imagine the FBO of which you speak simply doesn't want solo students going around the pattern in ultra-cold weather, mashing the throttle in for a go-around, and having the engine quit very low to the ground. :hairraise:

Be gentle with your power changes, be sure your carb is adjusted for the cold temps if need be, and go enjoy the beauty of cold-weather flying!
 
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