Independent CFI vs flight school

[rookie1255]

What makes a "flight school?" If as a CFI I'm teaching under part 61, can't I just make up a name and print "Top gun flight school" on my business cards?

How would I get my "flight school" on all those directories that show up when you do a search for flight schools in a particular state? Seems like big schools will show up but independent CFI names won't.

Item #3, the local flight school claims to have some kind of arrangement with the airport where they exclusively provide flight training. Is this possible? Can they stop me from having an airplane there and provide training or sign off flight reviews in other people's aircraft? I say they're bluffing...

 

[dtuuri]

What makes a "flight school?" If as a CFI I'm teaching under part 61, can't I just make up a name and print "Top gun flight school" on my business cards?

Sure.

Item #3, the local flight school claims to have some kind of arrangement with the airport where they exclusively provide flight training. Is this possible? Can they stop me from having an airplane there and provide training or sign off flight reviews in other people's aircraft? I say they're bluffing...

I say they're right in a practical sense. You would need to comply with the same FBO standards they do if they are an FBO or else meet any flight school standards the airport has established. This could mean office space, clear span hangar, thousands of feet of paved ramp space, etc. See the airport manager and inquire.

dtuuri

 

[write-stuff]

Sure, you're a sole proprietor and can be a one-manned flight school all you want. As far as being recognized (or allowed) by the airport, it's probably up to the airport authority or commission and is subject to the airport's Minimum Standards for Operations. You'll likely find the more formal flight schools on the field will protest so make sure to read the Minimum Standards and see where you stand.

You can enter yourself in the CFI directory at Gold Seal. It lists instructors sorted by city within state. No charge for being added and you also get full access to the ground school program. www.OnlineGroundSchool.com.

 

[weilke]

What makes a "flight school?" If as a CFI I'm teaching under part 61, can't I just make up a name and print "Top gun flight school" on my business cards?

Look into what it takes to file a 'doing business as' (dba) registration. Local courthouse, corporation commission, secretary of state someone handles this in your state. If you have a dba, you can get a bank account in that name, an individual tax ID (ITIN), enter into agreements under that name, advertise etc. The other option is to establish an entity for the business itself, an LLC, corporation etc. but it would add some overhead cost with little benefit (if you allow your students to solo in your plane, an entity may be worthwhile as it might add some insulation if the student goes off and does something not sanctioned by you and wrecks the plane).

Check on other requirements. In MN to call yourself 'flight school' you have to register with state DOT, post a performance bond etc.

How would I get my "flight school" on all those directories that show up when you do a search for flight schools in a particular state? Seems like big schools will show up but independent CFI names won't.

What kind of airport are you operating out of ? They may have 'minimal commercial standards' that you have to adhere to. Government entities are inventive when it comes to dreaming up that kind of stuff. Gross receipts taxes, annual licensing fee, insurance requirements, requirement to provide a bathroom etc. Often, the easiest way to comply with those commercial standards is to operate as tenant of a FBO.

Item #3, the local flight school claims to have some kind of arrangement with the airport where they exclusively provide flight training. Is this possible?

No. At least not at a FAA funded airport.

Unless it is the airport sponsor itself (city/private owner) that directly provides an aeronautical service, the airport cannot give someone a monopoly. They can claim that there is physically not enough room for a second FBO, but blocking someone outright from opening up a service provider is not possible. They CAN require you to adhere to the same standards as other similar providers under the 'uniform commercial standards'. So if the requirement for a flight school is a 1mil professional liability policy, that is what you have to provide. If they say you need a 'classroom' and a handicapped accessible bathroom with braille lettering on the door and an annual report on how you support minority owned businesses, that's what you have to provide.

Can they stop me from having an airplane there and provide training or sign off flight reviews in other people's aircraft? I say they're bluffing...

Gil, a member here has been through that rodeo.

If you make the airport your base of operation, yes they can make your life difficult. If you just show up as passenger to one of the individual users of the airport, there is very little they can do to prevent you from signing a flight review. However, if you pull up your 152 in front of the FBO and conduct your ground-school in the FBOs lobby without being their tenant, expect to run into issues.

 

[StinkBug]

However, if you pull up your 152 in front of the FBO and conduct your ground-school in the FBOs lobby without being their tenant, expect to run into issues.

Depends on the FBO, and how friendly you are with the folks at the desk. I use an independent CFI and nearly every one of our ground sessions is in the FBO lobby, with 2 flight schools (ATP, and Pinnacle) in the same building as tenants. The few lessons we didn't do there we just met at a nearby starbucks.

In reality if you did your ground school offsite, like at the starbucks, and just came in to fly I don't see how anyone could really stop you, or why the FBO would want to as long as you're buying fuel from them. That is unless the FBO itself is a flight school. If you just walk out to the plane with your student, preflight, and go fly I don't know how they would even know for sure you were teaching.

 

[James331]

I ran a small school with a couple CFI friends out of the pilots lounge, zero overhead on that


Knowing what I know now, if I go into a flight school and see a bunch of fancy expensive crap in the building, fancy signs, etc, I start to think of where the place spends it's money, when the owner is sitting down to a $2,000 desk, but the CFIs are riding used bicycles to work you got a problem and you probably ain't attracting good talent when it comes to instructors, and as a student that SHOULD be your biggest concern.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Look into what it takes to file a 'doing business as' (dba) registration. Local courthouse, corporation commission, secretary of state someone handles this in your state. If you have a dba, you can get a bank account in that name, an individual tax ID (ITIN), enter into agreements under that name etc. The other option is to establish an entity for the business itself, an LLC, corporation etc. but it would add some overhead cost with little benefit.

Check on other requirements. In MN to call yourself 'flight school' you have to register with state DOT, post a performance bond etc.

What kind of airport are you operating out of ? They may have 'minimal commercial standards' that you have to adhere to. Government entities are inventive when it comes to dreaming up that kind of stuff. Gross receipts taxes, annual licensing fee, insurance requirements, requirement to provide a bathroom etc. Often, the easiest way to comply with those commercial standards is to operate as tenant of a FBO.

No. At least not at a FAA funded airport.

Unless it is the airport sponsor itself (city/private owner) that directly provides an aeronautical service, the airport cannot give someone a monopoly. They can claim that there is physically not enough room for a second FBO, but blocking someone outright from opening up a service provider is not possible. They CAN require you to adhere to the same standards as other similar providers under the 'uniform commercial standards'. So if the requirement for a flight school is a 1mil professional liability policy, that is what you have to provide. If they say you need a 'classroom' and a handicapped accessible bathroom with braille lettering on the door and an annual report on how you support minority owned businesses, that's what you have to provide.


Gil, a member here has been through that rodeo.

If you make the airport your base of operation, yes they can make your life difficult. If you just show up as passenger to one of the individual users of the airport, there is very little they can do to prevent you from signing a flight review. However, if you pull up your 152 in front of the FBO and conduct your ground-school in the FBOs lobby without being their tenant, expect to run into issues.

Great post.

 

[weilke]

In reality if you did your ground school offsite, like at the starbucks, and just came in to fly I don't see how anyone could really stop you, or why the FBO would want to as long as you're buying fuel from them. That is unless the FBO itself is a flight school. If you just walk out to the plane with your student, preflight, and go fly I don't know how they would even know for sure you were teaching.

The OPs situation seems to be one where a flight school was given some sort of monopoly. This often happens in collusion with a dominant FBO. You can have an alternate setup where the FBO actually fosters the independents because they buy fuel and bring in new customers to the airport as a whole. That happens if FBOs and aidport manaagers are able to see past their personal fiefdoms and employ a longer view.

If the situation requires some degree of stealth, then teaching under your own name without a dba or llc is less conspicuous.

Lots of different potential setups and in the end it is all local politics and personalities. In some places the FBO rents out planes and uses independents to teach, possibly in competition with stand alone flight schools at the field. Otoh, some flight schools have no interest in the individual students because they either work off the government money racket or a foreign airline training deal.

 

[dtuuri]

From Section 2, AC 150/5190-7

My emphasis:

b. Independent Operators. If individual operators are to be allowed to perform a single-service aeronautical activity on the airport (aircraft washing, maintenance, etc.), the airport sponsor should have a licensing or permitting process in place that provides a level of regulation and compensation satisfactory to the airport. Frequently, a yearly fee or percentage of the gross receipts fee is a satisfactory way of monitoring this type of operation.

d. Flight Training Activities. On-airport flight training can be provided by the airport sponsor/owner or by a service provider. The minimum standards imposed on flight instruction operations should take the following information into consideration:
(1) What type of flight training will the service provider offer?
(2) What arrangements have been made for the office space the school is required to maintain under 14 CFR 141.25? What is the minimum amount of classroom space that the service provider must obtain?
(3) Will flight training be provided on a full-time or part-time basis?
(4) What type of aircraft and how many will be available for training at the on-airport location?
(5) What provisions have been made for the storage and maintenance of the aircraft?
(6) What provisions will be made for rest rooms, briefing rooms, and food service?
(7) What coordination and contacts exist with the local Flight Standards District Office?​

Whatever you do, be tactful. Don't muddy water you might need to drink.

dtuuri

 

[weilke]

Oh, dont forget local business license requirements if you advertise to the public.

 

[James331]

Oh, dont forget local business license requirements if you advertise to the public.

That cost me like 80 bucks.

 

[weilke]

That cost me like 80 bucks.

80 bucks and another inspector ready to hassle you ;-)

 

[MauleSkinner]

From Section 2, AC 150/5190-7

My emphasis:

b. Independent Operators. If individual operators are to be allowed to perform a single-service aeronautical activity on the airport (aircraft washing, maintenance, etc.), the airport sponsor should have a licensing or permitting process in place that provides a level of regulation and compensation satisfactory to the airport. Frequently, a yearly fee or percentage of the gross receipts fee is a satisfactory way of monitoring this type of operation.
​

"Um, I understand you need to monitor and regulate me if I start a flight school. How do you do that?"

"We charge a percentage of your gross receipts."

"I understand that the manpower required will have expenses associated with it. But what do these people do when they monitor my business?"

"They cash your checks."

​

 

[dtuuri]

"Um, I understand you need to monitor and regulate me if I start a flight school. How do you do that?"

"We charge a percentage of your gross receipts."

"I understand that the manpower required will have expenses associated with it. But what do these people do when they monitor my business?"

"They cash your checks."

Maybe the OP could use that to his advantage? Just have the city collect the fees directly and remit the leftovers to the CFI? Heck, what could be better oversight than scheduling the planes too? Why, it could save the OP a bundle in overhead.

dtuuri

 

[BigBadLou]

What makes a "flight school?" If as a CFI I'm teaching under part 61, can't I just make up a name and print "Top gun flight school" on my business cards?

How would I get my "flight school" on all those directories that show up when you do a search for flight schools in a particular state? Seems like big schools will show up but independent CFI names won't.

Item #3, the local flight school claims to have some kind of arrangement with the airport where they exclusively provide flight training. Is this possible? Can they stop me from having an airplane there and provide training or sign off flight reviews in other people's aircraft? I say they're bluffing...

BTDT. Trained with an independent CFI out of my home 'drome. Nobody knew he was a CFI, nobody knew I was a student. TNGs are prohibited at our airport so we always departed, practiced elsewhere and returned to land.
The FBO got their money from my fuel purchases and from my hangar rent.
Nobody questioned why I own an airplane, nobody questioned my CFI why he was flying with me.
As long as you don't step on someone's toes, nobody will care. When the on-airport exclusive monopolistic school starts losing revenue to your operation, that's when they notice and decide to hassle you.
That's just my "common cens two cens" view.