In Flight Emergency Yesterday / Panel Emergency: Handheld Radio Problem

VWGhiaBob

VWGhiaBob

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
884
Display Name
Display name:
VWGhiaBob
Any ideas if this happens again?

Yesterday, much of my panel failed...HSI, COM1 / NAV1, GPS, KLN94, Stormscope. At first, COM2 was also not working. All I had was 1 VOR and a compass. I was over the clouds in Class B airspace over LA!

So I pulled out my trusty Sporty's handheld radio. To my horror, I discovered that this radio, which I test before every flight, is not loud enough to work in a 182 cockpit. You can't hear what ATC is saying to you.

Anyone dealt with this? Should I purchase an Aux cable and figure out how to plug into audio system / intercom? Is there an adapter to connect it to my Bose A20, which has no AUX-in (only Bluetooth)? Am I missing something obvious?

Luckily, I got COM2 working and completed the flight with my 1 VOR and iPad. But now the handheld seems pretty useless except for getting ATIS.
 
Holy Crap.
That would have been a stressful moment (for me anyway).

Do you have foreflight?
 
did you squak 7600?

I'd suggest an adapter to plug in your headset, and consider an external type antenna.
do you rent or own?
 
Thanks for the quick responses.

Yes, I have Foreflight and it really helped in this situation within Class B. I rent from 8 Ball Flying Club...and fly 182's, 172, Saratoga, and DA40. Unfortunately, unless there's an adapter for Bose A20, I'll have to figure this out for each plane individually.

Let this be a lesson learned for others...try your handheld in flight. If your plane is as loud as mine, you'll need another way to hear ATC transmissions.

No I didn't squawk 7600 since I got COM2 working. Also, I was on a discrete code in Class B Los Angeles Airspace, so changing codes was not to be taken lightly.
 
Can't speak to the Sporty's version but I have owned two portables over the past 20 years. The first was a KX-99 and the current one is a Vertex 710. The biggest challenges with portables are range and the audio. On the KX-99, I used a panel mounted interface that allowed the KX-99 to be plugged into the plane's antenna. This interface cuts out the panel Com and allows you to broadcast and receive using the plane's antenna. I used a pigtail adapter to connect my headset to the portable.

For the Vertex, I use a portable adapter that allows the whip antenna on the portable to be removed from the unit and remote mounted on the windshield. As with the KX, I use a pigtail adapter that allows me to plug my headset into the portable.

When I am flying, I set up the radio to be quickly setup (the adapters are connected). I learned my lesson like you did.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
You are flying with the G1000 right? Please update me to what they find.

Just saw this video last night of some 60 hr pilot losing it all at night and the runway lights going out on final.

 
No...don't have G1000...just steam with a KLN94 GPS that failed.
 
JasonM said:
You are flying with the G1000 right? Please update me to what they find.

Just saw this video last night of some 60 hr pilot losing it all at night and the runway lights going out on final.

Click to expand...

What... No landing light ..:confused::confused:....:confused:.
 
CRIKEY! Glad you worked it out, nice job! I often wondered about being able to hear a handheld in the plane.
 
Let this be an important lesson to all...your handheld may be worthless in an emergency. Test it NOW!
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Any ideas if this happens again?

Yesterday, much of my panel failed...HSI, COM1 / NAV1, GPS, KLN94, Stormscope. At first, COM2 was also not working. All I had was 1 VOR and a compass. I was over the clouds in Class B airspace over LA!
Click to expand...

EHSI? Otherwise, what's the common failure point? Crazy!

So I pulled out my trusty Sporty's handheld radio. To my horror, I discovered that this radio, which I test before every flight, is not loud enough to work in a 182 cockpit. You can't hear what ATC is saying to you.

Anyone dealt with this? Should I purchase an Aux cable and figure out how to plug into audio system / intercom? Is there an adapter to connect it to my Bose A20, which has no AUX-in (only Bluetooth)? Am I missing something obvious?
Click to expand...

Do you have the panel-powered A20? If so, you could use the aux audio in that someone else posted, though you'd have to hold the handheld up to your mouth to transmit.

The only other option would be a separate headset with the two standard plugs ready to go in case of lost comm.

If you've got the A20 with the two standard aircraft plugs (battery powered), then you just want one of these: http://www.sportys.com/Pilotshop/product/9174
 
Two things on the handheld in the cockpit:

1) Get a headset adapter. If you have that - this is how it works on my Icom (I'm pretty sure I remember it right) the PTT on the handheld will activate the mic on the handheld, not your headset mic. An external PTT button plugged into the headset adapter will allow you to use your headset mic. BUT - there are known problems that sometimes the headset mic can setup a feedback squeal when transmitting. Here is the info from Icom:

http://icomamerica.com/en/support/kb/article.aspx?ArticleNumber=64JA571413

Test it out ahead of time - I have DC 10-13s and when I use them with the external PTT and adapter, I also get the feedback squeal, even with the filters.

Put together whatever configuration you decide on, and test it on the ground, then test it in the air. Remember where you stash the headset adapter, too. If you are like me, you use the handheld on the ground (minus the adapter) to get the wx, then turn it off and stick it in your bag. Then if you need the handheld in-flight, the adapter is buried in the bottom of your bag somewhere.

2: A buddy of mine lost his com in-flight. He has an Icom and no headset adapter. He found that by leaving his headset on, and pressing the radio against the outside of the earcup, it was able to transmit the sound from the radio, through the hard plastic, and he was able to hear it just fine. I have not tried this myself.
 
Headset adapter is a must. External antenna will also help immensely.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Thanks for the quick responses.

No I didn't squawk 7600 since I got COM2 working. Also, I was on a discrete code in Class B Los Angeles Airspace, so changing codes was not to be taken lightly.
Click to expand...

If you are on a IFR flight (or on flight following, or otherwise in contact with ATC in contolled airspace) and ATC cannot communicate with you, they have to assume something is stopping you from talking and start taking appropriate actions. If you hit 7600, they will immediately know what is wrong and then they will start procedures for a no radio aircraft. If you re-establish communications later on, then ask if they want you to take 7600 off and go back to the previous squawk code.

If it was a matter of seconds from time of recognition of lost comms to re-establishing communications, then I would not have worried about the squawk code but aplogize to ATC for the problem.

Otherwise there was no bent aluminum or injuries, no requested call to the tower. Seems as if there is a change in behavior due to experience which is also known as learning. You did fine.!!
 
Zeldman...thanks for the insights...yes...it was only about 1 minute until I figured out how to activate my COM2. I immediately checked in with ATC, apologized, and told them what happened. They understood and we continued.

I had to request permission to check out again in order to get ATIS for landing, since I only had 1 com. They granted me permission, and I checked back in 1 min later.

The brief COM2 issue was my fault. Given that much of the panel went dark, I assumed erroneously that COM2 was having problems too when I could only hear. Then my friend (who's also a pilot) reminded me that in this older 182, you have to not only dial in COM2, but also have to twist a knob to talk on COM2. I knew this, but faced with a near complete loss of NAV equipment, I forgot.

My huge lesson learned is the handheld which was useless. I'm exploring the options above. Hopefully there's a simple adapter that plugs into A20. Installing equipment is not an option, as I fly 5 club planes.
 
Thanks, all. I ordered: http://www.sportys.com/pilotShop/product/9174 .

Can't believe they sell the handheld radio without these! What's the use if you can't hear ATC?

Another "lesson learned" from my "license to learn" :)

Wonder what the next lesson will be...
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Any ideas if this happens again?
Click to expand...

Mine was VFR going into a Class D - but it did get my attention.

Lessons learned:

Have a battery box for the radio that takes AA batteries. It's almost a guarantee that the battery will be run down when you need it.

Rubber ducky antenna has a Rx range of 5 miles or so and a Tx range of about 3 feet. You need an external antenna and the cable to connect the radio.

You also need a headset cable and an external mic switch. All mine are stored in the glove compartment.

Test the rig. Mine works, although flipping frequencies is a bother when you're accustomed to 2 flip flop radios.

I have an A22 (with the VOR receiver/display). Not the greatest in the world, but it'd do in an emergency.
 
Wow...I assume "Tx range of about 3 feet" is a bit pessimistic. I use it on the field all the time with towers up to 1/2 mile away. External antenna is not an option, as I fly 5 club planes and 6 other planes from FBO rental fleets. I guess I'll just hope I'm near an ATC TX facility if it happens again.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Any ideas if this happens again?

Yesterday, much of my panel failed...HSI, COM1 / NAV1, GPS, KLN94, Stormscope. At first, COM2 was also not working. All I had was 1 VOR and a compass. I was over the clouds in Class B airspace over LA!

So I pulled out my trusty Sporty's handheld radio. To my horror, I discovered that this radio, which I test before every flight, is not loud enough to work in a 182 cockpit. You can't hear what ATC is saying to you.

Anyone dealt with this? Should I purchase an Aux cable and figure out how to plug into audio system / intercom? Is there an adapter to connect it to my Bose A20, which has no AUX-in (only Bluetooth)? Am I missing something obvious?

Luckily, I got COM2 working and completed the flight with my 1 VOR and iPad. But now the handheld seems pretty useless except for getting ATIS.
Click to expand...

Plugging into the audio panel with the handheld may not have worked if the rest of the panel is down. With what you described it could have been a bad audio panel to start with. Unless you know by lights or displays that the radio is dead.

Better to get a headset adapter to fit the handheld and be totally seperate from the aircraft panel. With my ICOM handheld the PTT on the side of the radio will work with my headset mic. Do not need the 3mm ppt switch on the adapter cord.

Some people do have an external antenna to a bnc connector for their handheld mounted in the airplane. A little better than that rubber short antenna when you need it.
 
BillTIZ said:
With my ICOM handheld the PTT on the side of the radio will work with my headset mic. Do not need the 3mm ppt switch on the adapter cord.
Click to expand...

I'll have to double check my Icom with the headset adapter and no external ptt. I know I've tried multiple combinations, maybe the only one I had problems with was when I used that external ptt.
 
Jim_R said:
Um, he had a complete electrical failure. Landing lights are electrical.
Click to expand...

Ok.... I must have missed that... I "thought he said a partial panel failure..

"Yesterday, much of my panel failed...HSI, COM1 / NAV1, GPS, KLN94, Stormscope. At first, COM2 was also not working. All I had was 1 VOR and a compass."


Edit:........... Never mind,, I mixed up his problem with the another video that was posted...:redface::redface:
 
Last edited:
I ordered the adapter for my A20.

Just got a note from mechanic. All of BUS2 had failed and a fuse inside the engine tripped. It has been repaired and cleaned...all good, in theory.

I can't help but think what could have happened if I had been IFR! 1 VOR, no GPS, no ILS / Localizer info. Foreflight and my remaining VOR saved the day!
 
A few suggestions from the "other side":

1) If your radios go, and your transponder works, you are absolutely in a lost communication scenario. You are an emergency. Squawk 7600.

2) When you figure out what is working, let ATC know that as well. Even if you have a handheld and can't hear, broadcast in the blind your intentions on guard.

3) If you are in positive control airspace and are able, descend under the positive control airspace and land VFR. ATC will move other aircraft out of the way knowing you have a situation (because you squawked 7600). Continue broadcasting in the blind on guard, you may be transmitting and not receiving. (Edit: savvy pilots will wait on this one until they are clear of a primary airport's traffic area)

4) If unable VFR, continue on your last clearance until your clearance limit. IFR: usually your destination airport. VFR: either the destination airport or positive control boundary, whichever comes first.

5) If everything comes back, or you find a way to get something to work, update the controller. There's no better news than hearing "situation normal." ;)

Glad to hear everything worked, and good job staying in control under stressful circumstances.
 
Last edited:
VWGhiaBob said:
I ordered the adapter for my A20.

Just got a note from mechanic. All of BUS2 had failed and a fuse inside the engine tripped. It has been repaired and cleaned...all good, in theory.

I can't help but think what could have happened if I had been IFR! 1 VOR, no GPS, no ILS / Localizer info. Foreflight and my remaining VOR saved the day!
Click to expand...
I seriously doubt that there's an electrical fuse inside your engine! :D

JOOC, when you found you couldn't hear the handheld, did you have your headset off and the handheld speaker up against an ear? I've used one that way and while the background noise in the cockpit made it harder to hear ATC compared to a headset I could easily make out what they were saying.
 
Great advice, Mark. I was about to dial in 7600 when I figured out how to activate COM2, less than a minute elapsed, so there was no need.

According to our mechanic, there is a fuse inside the engine compartment. His exact words: "opened power junction box in engine bay and reset power circuit breaker". I'll go with that...I'm not a mechanic. All fuses on the panel were normal.

iGismo, I didn't try holding the radio to my ear, but I can tell you it was loud loud loud in that cockpit. Perhaps that would have worked. I'm guessing the adapter will be 1000% better.
 
I had a setup where there was a plug into my antennae lead that plugged the antennae of the handheld to the airplane antennae. Just a Y (they say it wont work but it does). Good antennae is essential. I carried a standard plugged headset just for the handheld and had an adapter for it for hearing and talking. It worked fine.

It's also possible to set it up so the handheld runs into the music input which will let you listen to the handheld through your normal headset setup. (This gives you an additional radio receiver only for catching the ATIS if you only have one radio). (theoretically you could talk directly into the handheld with this setup).

etc
 
Matthew said:
I'll have to double check my Icom with the headset adapter and no external ptt. I know I've tried multiple combinations, maybe the only one I had problems with was when I used that external ptt.
Click to expand...

I have an older ICOM A20, not the newer A6.
I think I bought it in 1998?

I've replaced the original NiCD with a higher mAh battery and am now on my third NiMH 2000mAh battery. It's lasting great. Use it every weekend in a glider instructor operation and carry it as back up for my power flying. My current battery was bought in late 2009, so it might be time to start looking for another replacement battery.
 
BillTIZ said:
I have an older ICOM A20, not the newer A6.
I think I bought it in 1998?

I've replaced the original NiCD with a higher mAh battery and am now on my third NiMH 2000mAh battery. It's lasting great. Use it every weekend in a glider instructor operation and carry it as back up for my power flying. My current battery was bought in late 2009, so it might be time to start looking for another replacement battery.
Click to expand...
I have the newer icom - maybe 3-4 years old. It gets a good solid workout during glider season, too. If I have downtime in the towplane I'll keep it on for situational awareness. And it's our primary comms for glider/ground/air-to-air for anyone that doesn't have a built-in radio. In the glider I use a speaker mic attached to the shoulder harness and drop the radio in a pocket.

I keep it in my flight bag for power flying and get the wx during preflight. I'm not IR, yet, so I don't get clearances with it.

I'll experiment with the ptt operation soon, just not tonight. I just can't remember if the buil-in ptt on mine uses the headset mic or the built-in mic, or both.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top