Imminent crash when or does stalling the plane make sense.

DFH65

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DFH65
Imminent crash when or does stalling the plane ever make sense?

I was watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmEVwyMRYIY

I know the statement is always fly the plane to the ground.

Assuming you got into this situation and it did not turn out as this did and you were definitely headed into the trees.

Is there some point where it makes sense to try to reduce your forward speed haul back on the yoke and let the plane mush to the ground?
 
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Not according to Bob Hoover, the world's greatest pilot.

""If you're faced with a forced landing, fly the thing as
far into the crash as possible.""" Bob Hoover
 
My buddy Wizz faced that dilemma, stalled the plane, and suffered serious compression damage to his back. If you're strapped in, better to let the airframe absorb the impact in smaller doses rather than to take it all at once in the spine.
 
I have heard a Grumman rumor that one landed very hard, with a high vertical component.

The airplane was found, airworthy, with the engine running, but the pilot dead.

????
 
I've heard people say, in a situation like that, to try to land on the treetops. You'll still be under control, and hopefully the trees will break your fall.

Even my primary CFI, before my solo xc, told me - remember to fly it all the way to the ground.
 
I've heard people say, in a situation like that, to try to land on the treetops. You'll still be under control, and hopefully the trees will break your fall.

Even my primary CFI, before my solo xc, told me - remember to fly it all the way to the ground.

Same principle above mature corn or water.
 
I've heard people say, in a situation like that, to try to land on the treetops. You'll still be under control, and hopefully the trees will break your fall.

Lot of truth to that. A family friend blew a jug in his Stearman many years ago flying over a densely wooded forest. Flew it under control into the treetops. Airplane was a total loss, but all he got was a minor scratch on the face.
 
This guy ran out of gas and elected to land in a tree on a golf course.

_48699433_planeclosepa.jpg
 
I've heard people say, in a situation like that, to try to land on the treetops. You'll still be under control, and hopefully the trees will break your fall.
More importantly, they will absorb the energy of your forward motion.
 
More importantly, they will absorb the energy of your forward motion.

Airplanes are far more rugged than people give them credit for. But you have to keep them under control - once you pancake or nose in, all that crash protection probably will fail to help very much at all.
 
Based on what I experienced and observed while racing sailplanes some years ago, I've never seen an instance where stalling a glider would have been preferable to flying it in.

That includes a handful of tree landings (1 personally), dozens of off field landings including perhaps a half dozen in heavy crops (mostly corn), and one low altitude stall returning from a winch launch.

One tree landing destroyed every aircraft component; both wings (spar unbroken), stabilizer/elevator, fin, fuselage tail boom, shattered canopy and a split cockpit. Pilot emerged unharmed from the split cockpit as it sat on the ground 180 degrees from the direction of flight. The glider had been flown into trees and into a steep hillside.

The low altitude stall (less than half a wing span) resulted in the pilot suffering back injuries (passenger unharmed).

As others have suggested the vertical speed component of a stalled aircraft can hurt. The idea of 'mushing' into a crash may come from the sensation of doing a power-on or partial power stall where the nose can be held up while the wing stalls.

However, in the case of a glider or a dead stick airplane, you lose control of the nose when stalled. The aircraft may appear to start moving downward in a near level attitude, but the nose will quickly fall through and you will not have any elevator authority to stop it. In that scenario, having the nose slide between some tree trunks may result in a nose first fall into the ground. If minimum flying speed is carried into the trees, you'll have the best chance of keeping the nose up as the aircraft absorbs the damage and the speed.

In the case of high crops, again the objective is to keep flying and keep the nose up. As soon as the crops are hit, speed is quickly lost and forward progress is surprisingly short. I have no exposure to ditching (water landings) but I think the same things apply.

I guess the things you don't want to do is to fly into a wall, wire, or to roll off a small ledge. And don't cart wheel. Fly the aircraft.
 
Makes sense thanks for the thoughts. I had always heard fly it to the ground and that was always the plan. Maintaining that nose high attitude is critical as this NASA crash test video points out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1yWkbJuqkE

Mainly what had me thinking was if you are mushing down at 500 or even 1000 fpm that is only 5-10Mph vertical speed (you still have some forward speed) and at tree top level you are say 40 feet above the ground. But as stated the nose is falling through then rising then falling through.
 
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I'm engine out and crash free knock on wood ...

But I agree with everything I read that says CFIT is much better than un-controlled flight into the best terrain.

I read pilots who maintain control even into the most hostile terrain stand an even chance of survival as opposed to stalling. Stalls at low level kill or severely injure everyone almost every time. Too many pilots lose it trying to extend the glide when it's not going to work out, and instead of taking the tree tops under control, they stall and auger in.
 
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Stalls at low level kill or severely injure everyone almost every time.

I understand your point, but...

...I try to stall at EXTREMELY low level at least once nearly every flight, and have yet to be killed or seriously injured yet.

I call it a landing.

So, my goal would be to fly to very near the trees, ground or whatever, and then try to stall inches above, ideally into the wind. Hit just as the stick hit the rear stop. In my Sky Arrow we're talking 39k less any headwind component.

One advantage to stall landings is you get a lot of practice at this!
 
Stalling just above water, or mature corn might not be a bad idea.

Many have died trying that. In corn, just land. You may need new leading edges, but dozends of high wings have been flown off a corn field after the farmer cut a swath and whatever mechanical problem was fixed. Full flap soft field landing for both (except maybe in the C206).
 
Many have died trying that. In corn, just land. You may need new leading edges, but dozends of high wings have been flown off a corn field after the farmer cut a swath and whatever mechanical problem was fixed. Full flap soft field landing for both (except maybe in the C206).
Low wing handles it just fine, as well. Destroys the wings, for the most part. sure slows it down fast. Many large dents in the leading edge. Totaled the plane, but we walked away unhurt. With a twin.
 
Low wing handles it just fine, as well. Destroys the wings, for the most part. sure slows it down fast. Many large dents in the leading edge. Totaled the plane, but we walked away unhurt. With a twin.

How did you end up in the corn in a twin ?

Was that a 'total' as in 'written off by the insurance due to damage/value ratio' or did it do serious structural damage that would have required new spars or entire wings ?
 
How did you end up in the corn in a twin ?

Was that a 'total' as in 'written off by the insurance due to damage/value ratio' or did it do serious structural damage that would have required new spars or entire wings ?

Engine failure at a very low altitude.

Written off by insurance company.
 
stall = spin = landing upside down (or on something other than on the landing gear.)

Some planes do not stall (Ercoupe) so full back on the yoke will ensure landing at the slowest speed possible, but also at a high downward vertical speed. I think I would still try for a landing.
 
I understand your point, but...

...I try to stall at EXTREMELY low level at least once nearly every flight, and have yet to be killed or seriously injured yet.

I call it a landing.

So, my goal would be to fly to very near the trees, ground or whatever, and then try to stall inches above, ideally into the wind. Hit just as the stick hit the rear stop. In my Sky Arrow we're talking 39k less any headwind component.

One advantage to stall landings is you get a lot of practice at this!
I very much understand your point and try to do the same every landing.

But don't miss the point. Trees are not the ground. Fly into the trees at minimum airspeed but don't do a full stall 'landing' into them. Seriously. Been there, done the right thing, walking and talking. Seriously. But you know that.
Many have died trying that. In corn, just land. You may need new leading edges, but dozends of high wings have been flown off a corn field after the farmer cut a swath and whatever mechanical problem was fixed. Full flap soft field landing for both (except maybe in the C206).
 
I understand your point, but...

...I try to stall at EXTREMELY low level at least once nearly every flight, and have yet to be killed or seriously injured yet.

I call it a landing.

So, my goal would be to fly to very near the trees, ground or whatever, and then try to stall inches above, ideally into the wind. Hit just as the stick hit the rear stop. In my Sky Arrow we're talking 39k less any headwind component.

One advantage to stall landings is you get a lot of practice at this!


Yeah, not a full stall landing, but trying to extend a glide. When you're out of energy. Generally, stalling the aircraft unexpectedly and too high....

If you stall trying to extend the glide and fall into the trees or rocks as opposed to landing level in them, that's when bad things happen more often than not if I'm understanding CFIT.

I do full stall three pointer's on grass for fun and to stay proficient, but I prefer wheelies most exclusively. What I was talking about was different. :redface:
 
Tidbit:

The Meyers 200D has one of the best survivability rates due to it's steel cage fuselage.
 
I've heard people say, in a situation like that, to try to land on the treetops. You'll still be under control, and hopefully the trees will break your fall.

Even my primary CFI, before my solo xc, told me - remember to fly it all the way to the ground.
That is good advice. One of your own, JHW on this board did that very thing in one of my 421's with one engine out and one partial, in some of the most unforgiving terrain imagineable. A couple people died but a couple survived. One could clearly see from the path through the trees that they were as slow as possible but still flying and in control. Had they stalled, none would have made it.
 
Minimum energy and under control be it an engine failure or loss of landing gear or whatever.
 
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