I'm an idiot (aka dropped my dip stick)

[Fearless Tower]

An LED flashlight is just as bad. The switch will make a spark when actuated. The fuel mixture around the outlet is explosive. These two factors don't go well together.

Dan

Exactly. The person who made the LED comment was foolishly misguided. LED will spark just as well as a standard bulb light. It is not the bulb of the flashlight that makes it safe around fuel vapors - it is the constuction of the flashlight body.

If you want to be truly safe, you need an explosion proof flashlight such as those built to MSA (Mine Safety Appliances)standards.

 

[jsstevens]

Thanks, but it seems with websites there are always people saying "you could have gone".

I will stick with my own decision and if I'm a wuss, so what. I don't care.

My ground school instructor said (and it's always stuck with me) "It's ALWAYS better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the ground."

It is your job as PIC to decide when the risk is in line with your goals an comfort level. Kudos for sticking to your guns.

John

 

[Tom-D]

An LED flashlight is just as bad. The switch will make a spark when actuated. The fuel mixture around the outlet is explosive. These two factors don't go well together.

Dan

A picture of a new R and S fuel tank.. built later than restart of the single engine line.

the 150/152 has a welded aluminum tank with a solid aluminum tube sticking out to connect the hose. to have a screen you must have a pipe fitting welded into the outlet to screw the screen fitting into. the 150/152 doesn't have these fittings.

 

[Tom-D]

Exactly. The person who made the LED comment was foolishly misguided. LED will spark just as well as a standard bulb light. It is not the bulb of the flashlight that makes it safe around fuel vapors - it is the construction of the flashlight body.

If you want to be truly safe, you need an explosion proof flashlight such as those built to MSA (Mine Safety Appliances)standards.

or a lighted borescope.

these were taken with a lighted borescope.

the red is water died red to show water settled into the sumps of the late 182 and 206s.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

An LED flashlight is just as bad. The switch will make a spark when actuated. The fuel mixture around the outlet is explosive. These two factors don't go well together.

Dan

I switched it on FAR AWAY (on the ground, away from plane). Not because I knew better though. Just so I could make sure it was on etc before climbing up. But now I know.

 

[Tom-D]

I switched it on FAR AWAY (on the ground, away from plane). Not because I knew better though. Just so I could make sure it was on etc before climbing up. But now I know.

when a light is the source of ignition of the fumes close to the fuel filler it will flash then go out or create a eternal flame burning the fumes escaping from the tank, the fuel in the tank has no O2 to burn. So, all one must do to put the fire out is to replace the cap.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I switched it on FAR AWAY (on the ground, away from plane). Not because I knew better though. Just so I could make sure it was on etc before climbing up. But now I know.

I seriously wouldn't worry about it. The reality is that you would be hard pressed to start a fuel fire with the kinds of flashlights that we use around airplanes.

The biggest danger of sparking comes more from dropping the bloody thing.

I only mention the MSA thing because of the other student's comments to you thinking it was safer to use LED. It isn't. I use explosion proof flashlights when I am tank diving on ships, but I've got plenty of Maglites in my flight bag.

 

[Clark1961]

You made the right call. You weren't sure if there was a safety issue and because of that you decided not to fly. If anybody faults you for that, well, they're an idiot.

Word. It's hard for some folks to remember when they didn't know it all about aircraft and have their default condition set to "be very conservative" by their instructor/inexperience.

There are lots more NTSB reports on folks who decided to fly than there are on folks who decided to stay on the ground.

 

[Fearless Tower]

or a lighted borescope.

these were taken with a lighted borescope.

the red is water died red to show water settled into the sumps of the late 182 and 206s.

Dang, I always thought the water problems with certain models of Cessna were due to the years when they used bladder tanks. That seems like a lot of water for a metal wing tank.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Word. It's hard for some folks to remember when they didn't know it all about aircraft and have their default condition set to "be very conservative" by their instructor/inexperience.

There are lots more NTSB reports on folks who decided to fly than there are on folks who decided to stay on the ground.

Agreed, I should have thought of it this way. They have forgotten what it is like to be a newbie and were giving me "experienced" advice! Well for me, in my situation, at that time, I made a choice and I'm SURE my CFI's words were more to help me make safe go / no-go decisions in the future.

 

[vontresc]

Dang, I always thought the water problems with certain models of Cessna were due to the years when they used bladder tanks. That seems like a lot of water for a metal wing tank.

That is exatly the reason that there are now 47 sump points on the new wet wing cessnas.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

That is exatly the reason that there are now 47 sump points on the new wet wing cessnas.

47 different points?!

 

[Fearless Tower]

That is exatly the reason that there are now 47 sump points on the new wet wing cessnas.

Never flown a newer one, but have heard about all the sumps. Guess that 'splains it. You'd think they could have just re-designed the bloody tanks

 

[vontresc]

That is exatly the reason that there are now 47 sump points on the new wet wing cessnas.

47 different points?!

Never flown a newer one, but have heard about all the sumps. Guess that 'splains it. You'd think they could have just re-designed the bloody tanks

Well Ok I was exaggerating a bit

IIRC there were 5 or 7 per wing as well as a belly sump. It's a real PITA when it's below zero outside, and you stand downwind from the sump

 

[EdFred]

I think there is 13 on at least one of the new models of Cessna.

 

[gkainz]

...He also would not fly with his 4pm student knowing there was a dipstick in the plane ...

If my instructor took that position, he would have NEVER gotten in the plane with me ...

Folks might give you a hard time about cancelling, but the fact of the matter is, you're still here to read it. While I believe the chances of the stick causing ANY problem with your fuel delivery, had you flown and had ANY issues, the peanut gallery would suddenly be crowing the opposite song. "What was she thinking?"

 

[Tom-D]

It is smarter to stand here and look stupid, than to fly a bad aircraft and prove it.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

It is smarter to stand here and look stupid, than to fly a bad aircraft and prove it.

Exactly. And I am used to standing around looking stupid. In fact at this point I am semi-convinced it is a part of my charm. If I have any charm, that is.

 

[nddons]

47 different points?!

Never flown a newer one, but have heard about all the sumps. Guess that 'splains it. You'd think they could have just re-designed the bloody tanks

Well Ok I was exaggerating a bit

IIRC there were 5 or 7 per wing as well as a belly sump. It's a real PITA when it's below zero outside, and you stand downwind from the sump

A C172R has 13 - 5 each per wing, and 3 in the belly - for the fuel selector valve, fuel strainer, and reservior, I think. The POH calls for taking a CUP per drain - that's almost a gallon total. I'm not sure anyone does that.

 

[Teller1900]

Word. It's hard for some folks to remember when they didn't know it all about aircraft and have their default condition set to "be very conservative" by their instructor/inexperience.

There are lots more NTSB reports on folks who decided to fly than there are on folks who decided to stay on the ground.

That reminds me of something my initial instructor used to tell me, long ago. When faced with a decision, particularly one during which you're facing strong internal or external pressure which goes against your initial instinct, think about the NTSB reports and the commonalities within them.

It seems the majority of NTSB reports contain a phrase something like "Probable cause: the pilot's decision to ____" or "Probable cause: the pilot's lack of ___." So, when you come to your decision, consider those phrases and make sure what you're about to do doesn't fill in the blank.

While the dip stick may not have caused any problem, it sure would have looked bad if something completely unrelated had forced the plane into a field of grapes. Particularly when the happy inspector asks if you, the PIC, knew that there was a dip stick in your gas tank.

 

[Henning]

when a light is the source of ignition of the fumes close to the fuel filler it will flash then go out or create a eternal flame burning the fumes escaping from the tank, the fuel in the tank has no O2 to burn. So, all one must do to put the fire out is to replace the cap.

As long as you plugged the vent first. I have lit the filler neck of automobile gas tanks and welded them full of fuel....

The chances of lighting off a gas tank with a flashlight are very low. The chances of it lighting off from a flashlight outside of the tank and in fresh air are lower than winning the lottery while being struck by lightning while starring in a porno...

 

[kimberlyanne546]

As long as you plugged the vent first. I have lit the filler neck of automobile gas tanks and welded them full of fuel....

The chances of lighting off a gas tank with a flashlight are very low. The chances of it lighting off from a flashlight outside of the tank and in fresh air are lower than winning the lottery while being struck by lightning while starring in a porno...

Wow those are quite interesting chances.

 

[Clark1961]

The chances of lighting off a gas tank with a flashlight are very low. The chances of it lighting off from a flashlight outside of the tank and in fresh air are lower than winning the lottery while being struck by lightning while starring in a porno...

Agree. Neither the 1.5 volts of the led flashlight nor the 3 volts of the incandescent flashlight are likely to cause a problem. Just not much of a spark there. I know we used to say low voltage systems were safe and now we don't. I don't know what drove the change...

 

[Fearless Tower]

Wow those are quite interesting chances.

Hopefully, you have sufficient information now to thoroughly school LED boy.

 

[Henning]

Wow those are quite interesting chances.

There's some storms brewing, wanna grab a lotto ticket?

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Hopefully, you have sufficient information now to thoroughly school LED boy.

I am not into "schooling" him. I only see him every few lessons, and even then just in passing. I don't need to go up to him next time and correct him! After all I'm the idiot who dropped my dip stick in the tank, remember? Besides, he seems like a nice guy and even helped to get me a discount on some pilot supplies. If he wants to use LED instead of normal flashlights for less explosive-ness, let's allow him to do that.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

There's some storms brewing, wanna grab a lotto ticket?

Nah. I told you I don't like being filmed.....

 

[Henning]

I am not into "schooling" him. I only see him every few lessons, and even then just in passing. I don't need to go up to him next time and correct him! After all I'm the idiot who dropped my dip stick in the tank, remember? Besides, he seems like a nice guy and even helped to get me a discount on some pilot supplies. If he wants to use LED instead of normal flashlights for less explosive-ness, let's allow him to do that.

My friend showed me this rockin LED flashlight she had last nigh, this thing must have 90 LEDs and ran off 4 AA batteries. It was the first LED flashlight I saw that actually throws a beam.

 

[Henning]

Nah. I told you I don't like being filmed.....

Alright, skip the movie...

 

[jesse]

The chances of lighting off a gas tank with a flashlight are very low. The chances of it lighting off from a flashlight outside of the tank and in fresh air are lower than winning the lottery while being struck by lightning while starring in a porno...

Agree. There is no way I'd worry about it. There are ways to kill yourself in aviation - but looking into the tank with a flash light the hell isn't going to be it.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Agree. There is no way I'd worry about it. There are ways to kill yourself in aviation - but looking into the tank with a flash light the hell isn't going to be it.

If I ever run out of ideas for posts, this will be a good one. Wives tales about how to kill yourself in aviation that are NOT true LOL.

Glad I was not even close to receiving the Darwin award yesterday as I stood over 8 gallons of fuel with a dinky LED mag lite.

 

[Henning]

If I ever run out of ideas for posts, this will be a good one. Wives tales about how to kill yourself in aviation that are NOT true LOL.

Glad I was not even close to receiving the Darwin award yesterday as I stood over 8 gallons of fuel with a dinky LED mag lite.

I used to clean parts outside at the carlot in a bucket of gasoline while smoking.... Really freaked this lady out when she told me that I shouldn't do that and I said "ok" and dropped the cig in the gas to put it out. I thought she was gonna have a stroke...

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I used to clean parts outside at the carlot in a bucket of gasoline while smoking.... Really freaked this lady out when she told me that I shouldn't do that and I said "ok" and dropped the cig in the gas to put it out. I thought she was gonna have a stroke...

Wow. More proof you are living life on the edge as compared to me. That is a good story though.

 

[Rndmtrvlr]

Yeah, another pilot told me that some low wings (ex: Pipers) have these "tabs" you are talking about, and other visual references, meaning you don't need anything other than your eyes to figure out how much fuel is in there.

Unfortunately, my little 152 is "bare bones" even down to the fuel tanks. No extras here!

Get a bigger (longer) dipstick. This is one case where size definitely matters.

 

[Henning]

Wow. More proof you are living life on the edge as compared to me. That is a good story though.

If you understand what is going on, what appears as "edge" you'll find is actually not as big of a risk as it seems. The main danger with gasoline is vapor and it has to be between LEL and UEL (Lower and Upper Explosive Limits, a reasonably thin range) to combust. If you have a breeze and an open topped bucket, the vapor hazard is minimal. The flash point for liquid gasoline is above the temp a cigarette burns at when not being dragged on.

 

[PittsDriver]

I used to clean parts outside at the carlot in a bucket of gasoline while smoking.... Really freaked this lady out when she told me that I shouldn't do that and I said "ok" and dropped the cig in the gas to put it out. I thought she was gonna have a stroke...

I had a long gone uncle from L.A. (Lower Alabama) who raised chinchillas in pens out behind his house. He was cleaning those pens with gasoline while smoking one day and killed himself and a whole mess of 'chillas. It happens.

 

[Henning]

I had a long gone uncle from L.A. (Lower Alabama) who raised chinchillas in pens out behind his house. He was cleaning those pens with gasoline while smoking one day and killed himself and a whole mess of 'chillas. It happens.

Yep, in an enclosed space.... Had a neighbor at Newmark's Marina in LA, old Greek guy named Gus. He had bought Magnavox's old research boat, a 120' crew boat and he was cleaning the engine room with MEK. I was sitting around next door on deck with a couple other crew and we ended up in the water.

I didn't say gasoline is safe, I said in the right conditions you can put a cigarette out in it.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Get a bigger (longer) dipstick. This is one case where size definitely matters.

I'm working on this.

 

[PittsDriver]

I'm working on this.

Is his name Ed?

 

[ebacon]

By that, he means he'd'a shaken his boobs.

Oh no you di'int.