IFR Plan through restricted airspace.

genna

genna

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How prudent is it to attempt to file an IFR flight plan through a number of active(by normal hours, not Notam) military restricted airspaces. R-4005 and R-4006 specifically(Washington Sectional).

I know that ATC can clear you through restricted airspaces(IFR or VFR). Just not really sure if filing through them is a good idea(via GPS direct, expecting a likely different ATC route anyway).

I'm going to file around them, but I am curious on the consensus on this.
 
I'd vote for filing around them for a simpler clearance delivery process and more accurate flight planning if you're flying anything approaching a max range profile. Then, once you're in the air and near the airspace see if you can go through it. That way, it's a pleasant enroute surprise if you can get through it, rather than an airborne re-route if they can't let you though.
 
I'd file through them and see what you get.

When I was in DC, they were very often not even being used even though they were technically hot by schedule. And on IFR, I almost always got cleared through.
 
I always file through them. If they don't want you going through it they'll just vector you around.
 
genna said:
I know that ATC can clear you through restricted airspaces(IFR or VFR). Just not really sure if filing through them is a good idea(via GPS direct, expecting a likely different ATC route anyway).
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ATC can rarely clear you through an active Restricted Area.
 
eeny meeny miney mo..... I pretty much agree with filing around them. Probably get cleared as filed a few more times than if you file through them. Like someone said above, request direct when you're in the air. And like someone else said ya better make sure ya got enough gas to go around anyway.
 
Gas won't be an issue... 2h flight, 4+h in the tank. And it's only about a 3 minute detour as filed. File around and ask for direct in the air is a good idea. I guess we will see how close I will get to "as filed". So far I have not gotten any "as filed" in this area :)
 
genna said:
Gas won't be an issue... 2h flight, 4+h in the tank. And it's only about a 3 minute detour as filed. File around and ask for direct in the air is a good idea. I guess we will see how close I will get to "as filed". So far I have not gotten any "as filed" in this area :)
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Why not just file through?
 
If they change your route, you get to have a "crisis in the cockpit"! Oh no, they changed my route!!! Hope ATC has good radar, you might have to climb! Might need oxygen if you go over 12k. Then what are you going to do??? Just be prepared to deal with going around them if you file through them. There are some that are always active so GA never has access.
 
Doesn't matter what you file. You'll get what you will get. And you'll fly what you will fly. That's three levels on purpose. I've been in the situation in which I have direct, received a expected clearance around, and then received an actual clearance through. OTOH, I generally prefer to file around it as a better way of flight planning for me and then ask for the shortcut. Making a change that shortcuts a route by leaving out waypoints just seems easier to me than having to add them.
 
I keep hearing members of the military complain that they aren't getting enough flight time because of budgetary issues. if they aren't flying the MOAs nobody is. I go through.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Doesn't matter what you file. You'll get what you will get. And you'll fly what you will fly. That's three levels on purpose. I've been in the situation in which I have direct, received a expected clearance around, and then received an actual clearance through. OTOH, I generally prefer to file around it as a better way of flight planning for me and then ask for the shortcut. Making a change that shortcuts a route by leaving out waypoints just seems easier to me than having to add them.
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Now, I just wish I understood why I got the following reroute during a flight from San Luis Obispo (KSBP) to Oakland (KOAK):

I filed a coastal route, to try to keep it cool. The clearance was totally different.

Original clearance was CREPE3.PRB ROM PXN V301 SUNOL then direct.

Reroute, received on the way to PRB, was PRB ROM PXN.PXN3

It's the exact same route. Even the altitudes matched (for pistons). I was cleared originally to 8000.

[That was a fun DP -- back course localizer]
 
Let's not bring MOA into this. The conversation is about RESTRICTED airspace
 
midlifeflyer said:
Doesn't matter what you file. You'll get what you will get. And you'll fly what you will fly. That's three levels on purpose. I've been in the situation in which I have direct, received a expected clearance around, and then received an actual clearance through. OTOH, I generally prefer to file around it as a better way of flight planning for me and then ask for the shortcut. Making a change that shortcuts a route by leaving out waypoints just seems easier to me than having to add them.
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I agree with you that you will get what you will get. That has been my (limited) experience. But I would like to keep what I get close to what I file(or at least get back as proposed route by ATC from Foreflight) so that I don't have to ask 5 times to repeat those waypoints. :). Although around here this seems to me how it goes anyway, so why even try?

I guess my question was asked so that I don't look like an idiot if I file through R space. Seems to me that this is down to a personal preference.
 
genna said:
I agree with you that you will get what you will get. That has been my (limited) experience. But I would like to keep what I get close to what I file(or at least get back as proposed route by ATC from Foreflight) so that I don't have to ask 5 times to repeat those waypoints. :). Although around here this seems to me how it goes anyway, so why even try?

I guess my question was asked so that I don't look like an idiot if I file through R space. Seems to me that this is down to a personal preference.
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Seems easier to me to file around it, then ask if its hot when airborne. 3-4 minutes isn't that much out of the way.
 
MAKG1 said:
Now, I just wish I understood why I got the following reroute during a flight from San Luis Obispo (KSBP) to Oakland (KOAK):
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Probably an LOA between ZLA and ZOA requiring pistons into OAK to be on the PXN3 arrival. Practically speaking, the ground track was the same, as you pointed out, but that may not have been known to the person or system whose job it is to ensure that aircraft are being handled per the LOA.
 
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genna said:
I agree with you that you will get what you will get. That has been my (limited) experience. But I would like to keep what I get close to what I file(or at least get back as proposed route by ATC from Foreflight) so that I don't have to ask 5 times to repeat those waypoints. :). Although around here this seems to me how it goes anyway, so why even try?

I guess my question was asked so that I don't look like an idiot if I file through R space. Seems to me that this is down to a personal preference.
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It does and I don't disagree. I think the ability of Foreflight, FltPlan, and others to give you common clearances for planning and expected clearances you can pop right in is great and I use them whenever they are available. But even those are subject to change, more often in some geographic areas than others.

Typically, though, I find "would you like a shortcut direct?" more enjoyable to hear than "I have an amendment. Advise when ready to copy a full routing." :D
 
The decision how to file, as always, depends on your experience. If you know that odds are you'll be routed around (and I'd say with R-space that's extremely likely), then file around to simplify the process and reduce your surprise element. If it's more like 50-50 or better, then by all means file through and see what you get. So base it on your personal statistics with that particular SUA (or that of people you trust who fly it routinely).
(BTW, adjusting your altitude to avoid the R-space should be another consideration besides going around it.)
 
I'd expect to not be allowed through, I normally file around and ask for direct if possible for normal stuff, for work I file direct 100% of the time, gotten a few restricted areas paused for me ;)
 
File what you want. They will give you what they want. If you get cleared as filed, Good. If it goes live while airborne they will give you a reroute. We flew into Destin once, originally cleared direct from the west. About 100 miles out we were rerouted from direct to via the Crestview Vortac then Destin because the R-complex was active.
 
Its fine to file through them, but just expect a re-route. If it were me I'd plan around them, same as an MOA.
 
Filed around, got something else , but also around. Way more around than I filed(good 20 min detour). Asked for and received direct once cleared just around R space
 
File through. Like other have said, worst is they vector you around.
 
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