IFR GPS Advice

pp47021

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
27
Display Name

Display name:
Pete
I recently sold my Cherokee that was my go to VFR plane with the intention of both upgrading (planes) and also getting my IFR rating. I am looking at a debonair that is equipped with a King KLN89B Digital GPS which I believe is an IFR certified GPS. I really had my heart set on a Garmin however I can't find a plane that has the other things I desire plus the Garmin. This plane meets all of my other requirements minus the Garmin.
So.... Do any of you have experience with this GPS? Is it good for IFR flying and approaches? I use foreflight and will most likely have a 496 or other portable for weather, so in effect I will have 3 gps units on board. Also I don't plan on doing hardcore IFR flying. My main purpose is to get up on top where it is smooth and to be able to fly in MVFR and be safer and more comfortable in the process. Most of the airports I fly into only have GPS approaches including my home airport.
Do you think this GPS would be sufficient for my purposes? Or should I continue to look for something with a Garmin?

 
I've trained several people with a KLN-89B for their instrument rating. It's old, clunky, and limited in its capabilities. It's doesn't do WAAS and cannot be upgraded, so you aren't going to be flying approaches to below about 400 feet HAT, and often not even that. The so-called map display is, compared to current production, about like comparing Atari games of the 80's to a current video game. The user interface is neither intuitive nor easy to use in flight. There is a half-decent PC-based simulator (nothing for iPads AFAIK), but really no training courses. Its database does not include any but GPS-based approaches, so you can't use it to help on ILS/LOC approaches, or on VOR/NDB approaches that don't have a GPS overlay.

That said, with the exception of getting into your GPS-only home 'drome, it should do what you want. You haven't posted your location, so I don't know what your options are, but where I live, the difference between LNAV and LPV is the difference between 200 HAT and 400 HAT -- and I've come home more than once to a 300-foot ceiling. On two of those days, when the ILS GS was out, I got in with my GNS530W, while Piedmont Airlines with no WAAS GPS had to divert. So if your flying is purely recreational, and you don't fly in serious IMC, then the 89B will probably suffice.
 
I installed an 89b in my Cherokee it works to file /G. It's outdated and the value is negligible. I now have a G530w, I wouldn't install an 89b again. With the Adsb mandate looming I would only be looking at a 430W or better. It cost me 7K after it was all said and done to update my 530 to WAAS.
 
My 182 had the 89B when I bought it so that's what I used for my instrument training. Works fine, just not as user friendly as the Garmin and no WAAS. There's also some Voodoo Witchery to master for VTF and procedure turns, but not bad once you get the hang of it. Just make sure you read the entire manual. Then, read the manual. Also, the Kings have an online course for the 89B. I have a Garmin Area 560 for weather and use Foreflight, too.
 
I certainly wouldn't yank it out if you already have someting that is legal /G. Considering how many airplanes are still flying IFY /U or /A you are already toward the head of the pack. Concentrate on learning to fly in IMC and don't worry too much about what kind of boxes are inthe panel.
 
I've got a lot of time with the 89b, it works just fine. It's little stick map display is really primitive, an iPad is nice to have along. If you study TSO-129 that will help you understand what the box wants to do.

Our club was able to swap a KLN-89b for the much more user friendly KLN-94. This is a plug-and-play upgrade. It cost about 2k for Pippen York to do the swap.

Sadly, our FSDO has been sitting on the paperwork for several months now.
 
I've trained several people with a KLN-89B for their instrument rating. It's old, clunky, and limited in its capabilities. It's doesn't do WAAS and cannot be upgraded, so you aren't going to be flying approaches to below about 400 feet HAT, and often not even that. The so-called map display is, compared to current production, about like comparing Atari games of the 80's to a current video game. The user interface is neither intuitive nor easy to use in flight. There is a half-decent PC-based simulator (nothing for iPads AFAIK), but really no training courses. Its database does not include any but GPS-based approaches, so you can't use it to help on ILS/LOC approaches, or on VOR/NDB approaches that don't have a GPS overlay.

That said, with the exception of getting into your GPS-only home 'drome, it should do what you want. You haven't posted your location, so I don't know what your options are, but where I live, the difference between LNAV and LPV is the difference between 200 HAT and 400 HAT -- and I've come home more than once to a 300-foot ceiling. On two of those days, when the ILS GS was out, I got in with my GNS530W, while Piedmont Airlines with no WAAS GPS had to divert. So if your flying is purely recreational, and you don't fly in serious IMC, then the 89B will probably suffice.

I've flown hard IFR with approaches in an A36 with the 89-B. I agree with all of the limitations mentioned, and this GPS was dated even back then 10 plus years ago.

BUT.. it works. Its /G. With regards to the user interface, Bendix King has their architecture and Garmin has their own.. there is no systemwide standardization on this across manufacturers. Once you learn how to use one Bendix King GPS you will be pretty much good to go with all the others, they use similar "button-ology".

As someone else said, the KLN-94 is a plug and play/Slide in/slide out exchange and it has a color screen. But the 89B and 90 are both acceptable, minimalist platforms that can do Nonprecision instrument GPS work.
 
The 89B is limited to non percision IFR approaches. ILS approaches may not be loaded.

Primary example, the LAS Rwy 25L, the DME portion of the approach is off the LAS VORTAC. You can load LAS into the 89B for DME information and tune your Nav1 for the ILS.

Switch to the LAS Rwy 1L, the DME is on the loc freq, that information is not loaded into the 89B. So without a seperate DME source, that approach is not available to you.
 
It depends on how much you need WAAS. (once you go WAAS, you'll never go back.) WAAS will give you precision-like minimums. At my home field, non-WAAS GPS HAT is over 1000 feet, basically VFR, and nearly identical to the VOR approach.. The LPV approaches are 250 and 350 feet HAT depending on runway.

Ultimately, you are going to want WAAS capability, but you can certainly train with what you have.
 
I also don't care for the 89B. Very non-standard in its button pushing and cumbersome to work with. I wouldn't install one in my airplane if it was free.
 
I recently sold my Cherokee that was my go to VFR plane with the intention of both upgrading (planes) and also getting my IFR rating. I am looking at a debonair that is equipped with a King KLN89B Digital GPS which I believe is an IFR certified GPS. I really had my heart set on a Garmin however I can't find a plane that has the other things I desire plus the Garmin. This plane meets all of my other requirements minus the Garmin.
So.... Do any of you have experience with this GPS? Is it good for IFR flying and approaches? I use foreflight and will most likely have a 496 or other portable for weather, so in effect I will have 3 gps units on board. Also I don't plan on doing hardcore IFR flying. My main purpose is to get up on top where it is smooth and to be able to fly in MVFR and be safer and more comfortable in the process. Most of the airports I fly into only have GPS approaches including my home airport.
Do you think this GPS would be sufficient for my purposes? Or should I continue to look for something with a Garmin?


I feel your pain. I had a GX60 "IFR" GPS with ipad/foreflight/GPS puck and a Garmin 496 for WX.

I hated that setup. Bunch of crap and cords all over the place. Forever to set up and take down. And still no WAAS LPV approaches! Sucko.

I invested in a GTN 750 and have been loving life since. The thing is that non-WAAS boxes are not desirable because you can't take advantage of the thousands of new LPV approaches that have been/are popping up all over the place. Podunk airports with 250 ft DHs. Too cool.

Throw in a 430W or 530W on the cheap (relative, ok :D ) or consider a capital investment and go with something new like a GTN 650 or 750. It does improve your plane's value. Then sell your 496 and use stratus/foreflight for wx and plates and situational awareness.
 
I recently added a 430w to my arrow. Now with a stratus for foreflight I am going to sell my 696.
 
If it was me;
If everything else about the Deb is good(engine, A/P, etc), negotiate knowing you need to spend the 10-12K to get a modern WAAS GPS installed. If the final price with WAAS isn't what you want to spend, move on. Lots of 430/530W planes out there.
 
Back
Top