iFly GPS now for Apple; Android version soon.

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Challenged, Dec 5, 2013.

  1. Challenged

    Challenged Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,425
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Challenged
    iFly GPS has an Apple/iOS app available in the app store: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ifly-gps/id655202847 Here's an article on the release: http://www.aero-news.net/AnnTicker.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=13d1632d-4462-4a24-b334-9f14917bbc92

    I've tried most of the available moving-map apps on both the Android and Apple platforms and so far I'm very pleased with iFly. It supports lots of ADS-B devices (confirmed that it works fine with my iLevil) and has vector maps, which is something that I personally prefer.
     
  2. Scrabo

    Scrabo Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,826
    Location:
    PHX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scrabo
    Why bother entering an already over crowned marketplace this late in the game, don't think any FF kool-aid drinkers will be jumping ship for this.
     
  3. tmyers

    tmyers En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    4,093
    Location:
    Kettering, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim Myers
    The people at Adventure Pilot came up with the i-pad app at the request of their current 700 and 720 owners as a low cost way to leave their iFLY in the airplane and take their flight planning home with them. The i-pad also makes a good back up GPS if there were an issue with their 700/720. If you own an iFly device you can add the i-pad charts for $19.99. This gives us all the Sectionals, WACs, Low En-route, High En-route, Vector charts, Approaches, Airport Diagrams and Airport satellite images for $130 a year on up to three devices.

    I am sure they are hoping a few people will like the App and wish they had a daylight readable device for their EFB, and purchase a 700, 720 or the new 520.

    I really like mine.
     
  4. Inverted

    Inverted Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,334
    Location:
    Walnut Creek CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Inverted
    You say kool-aid like there is some mysterious reason that FF is largely the most popular iOS EFB app. Care to enlighten me?
     
  5. Scrabo

    Scrabo Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,826
    Location:
    PHX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scrabo
    I have nothing against FF, used it for 3 months myself, it’s a sleek looking product , they make good use of the Apples API’s and many reviews have mentioned it’s a great tool for flight planning but I think it’s more style over substance ( or as my niece calls it the ‘pretty one’). Sure WingX looks like it was written in Windows 95, AOPA FlyQ and BK ‘myWingman’ are written by the same vendor, but those 3 have features that FF lacks.


    Full disclosure – I have not used the Garmin app so I can’t compare.


    FF is limited to one ADS-B box, there’s a special “Pro” version that offers features other apps include in their base price and was late to the game in offering ADS-B traffic after first saying it was useless, then once every competitor offered it, there was some back tracking ( the value of ADSB traffic without an out box is a topic for another day).


    Sure, there are really bad EFB type apps out there, all of them trying to play catch-up but they all lack both style and substance.


    Having a majority in anything, does not always mean it’s the best, just look at your last 2 presidents as an example of majority rules.
     
  6. CT4ME

    CT4ME Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,320
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CT4ME
    I have not flown with an iFly, but know several people who love theirs. If the program is stable, and the feature set is similar to the iFly unit, this could put the iFly App right up there with FF, WX and GP. 'Ever the optimist, I'm downloading the trial right now...
     
  7. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    10,947
    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jonesy
    I just downloaded it and my initial reaction is it's pretty ugly. Resolution even on textual screens looks like you're looking at a 1980's PC monitor. No matter how great their feature set, I'm not sure I could look at the screen every day. It's truly the worst iPad app I've seen in three years of using iPads.
     
  8. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    10,947
    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jonesy
    No contiguous maps and you need to switch between terminal charts and sectionals. For anyone who has used FF or GP, this is a really disappointing iPad app. I'm guessing it was state of the art on Windows, but doesn't compare favorably on the iPad.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  9. Scrabo

    Scrabo Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,826
    Location:
    PHX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scrabo
    Agree, I thought it was just my old ipad2 didnt have enought horsepower so i loaded it on the Air and was impressed with the quality of it, graphics are very blocky reminding me of olf 1990 video games
     
  10. Jim_R

    Jim_R Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,196
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jim
    iFly users are pretty happy with the product AP puts out, including their strong interaction with their user community and responsiveness to feature requests, bug reports, etc. They launched their first product on a WindowsCE device before the iPad was announced, and this is their v1.0 step beyond WinCE.

    I think a lot of current iFly users will stick with the product they know and like if they can use it on their preferred tablet. Whether the newly-supported platforms draw new customers remains to be seen. Their stated goal is to have the same user interface and experience across all supported platforms, which of course has its pros and cons.

    One differentiator is that they may be cost-competitive for folks who are looking for multi-device support. Add-on data subscriptions seem pretty inexpensive. Not sure how that compares to other products.

    Another differentiator is their effort to support multiple (so far, essentially all) portable ADS-B receiver/transceiver options.

    At any rate, FF is only competition in the iPad world, and not everyone owns or wants an iPad. When the iFly Android app is available, Garmin will be their primary competition, not FF.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  11. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    10,947
    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jonesy
    But without some major interface improvements, as well as charting improvements, they won't be competitive with Garmin at all.
     
  12. tmyers

    tmyers En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    4,093
    Location:
    Kettering, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim Myers
    I tried several systems before and after getting my iFly 720. These included FF, Garmin, and Fly Q. There were many trips with the iFly on the pilots yoke and the other system on the co pilots yoke with my iPad.

    I know much of this is personal but I could never get into a good flow with FF. Fly Q kept locking up, and I don't really remember what it was with Garmin. Of course none of the iPad apps were really daylight readable.

    I don't recall any glaring differences between the two images, but it has been awhile.

    For me the iFly interface is so simple that I have honestly never read the manual. My iFly never leave the airplane and I keep two SD cards for it. A simple update of the card in my trifold and switch the old for the new before flying.

    I have never had an opportunity to fly with someone that is FF savy and can demo the product.

    Maybe someday!
     
  13. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,851
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Drake the Outlaw
    I have an iFly 720 (it drives the AP in my RV) and also use WingX on my iPad mini or iPhone.

    The iFly is nice, but if the Apple devices would run an autopilot (which requires a NEMA output), I'd junk the iFly and stick with WingX. I find WingX much more intuitive than the iFly's interface. Some of the menus on the iFly require 2-3 "extra" key punches than should be necessary, which annoys me, and some of the features are in the "wrong" (IMO) menu trees...
     
  14. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    10,947
    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jonesy
    Do you use the sectional charts? One of the best features of the iPad-based charting systems is the ability to seamlessly scroll around the entire country. I can't find a way to do that with iFly. I live just northwest of the intersection of four different charts...any flights to the south or east requires constant jumping between sections. It would be completely unusable for me.

    I don't think it's an issue of the interface not being intuitive. I think it's just the overall presentation on the iPad that leaves me unimpressed.

    I have to admit, I was smitten with ForeFlight the first time I saw it. I thought it was about as intuitive a user interface as I'd ever seen (and I've been living/breathing microcomputers and related devices since the late '70s.) I still think they have the edge in user-friendliness, although as the newer touchscreen Garmin avionics grow their market Garmin Pilot will feel pretty comfortable.
     
  15. Jim_R

    Jim_R Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,196
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jim
    Nobody ever wants to hear, "yeah, but wait for 2.0!" However, AP has indicated that significant changes are coming to the user interface in the next major update (they tend to release around Oshkosh and Sun-n-Fun).

    Maybe they won't compete well against Garmin, but no one else has announced support for both iPad and Android, and no one else is supporting the wide variety of ADS-B / AHRS offerings available on the market. I also don't think anyone else's data subscription prices are lower, especially for multiple devices.

    AP's offering has some benefits over the competition. Remains to be seen if that's enough, or if they improve their position going forward.
     
  16. tmyers

    tmyers En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    4,093
    Location:
    Kettering, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim Myers
    I use the sectional charts if I am down low or looking for a landmark. If I am at cruise I usually use the vector chart. This is mainly because the text stays correct when in track up mode. If there is weather I use the weather chart which is the same as the vector chart. The WAC chart can be nice if you want a sectional look but with less clutter, but I rarely use that. Same with Terminal Charts.

    Traffic show up on all the maps.

    One of the explanations for the Sectional not being seamless is that some folks wanted to be able to see the keys, and MOA stuff on the flaps. I don't use the ipad near as much as the 720 app, but on the 720 the maps will change automatically if you fly into the next one. Not sure how FF handles the extra stuff on the sectionals.

    One thing I feel is missing from the iFly is the ability to file your flight plan. they have a very active forum site and as one of their beta testers I get the new stuff first to try out. I also make lots of suggestions. One is a way to flight plan at home on the ipad and somehow transfer your flight to the 720. i have also pushed for airspeed, altitude and VSI tapes like an Aspen.

    They keep discussing virtual sim as a coming possibility. If any think I feel they are too accommodating to everyone's wishes. I think we get too many options at times.

    They have been great about working with numerous vendors to get ADS-B weather and traffic both in and out along with the AHRS.

    For me the $130/yr for up to three devices is a plus on costs.

    Have you tried much customizing of the screen instruments that appear on the screen to avoid having to go look for it. that is also a plus but you have to know it is there to take advantage of it.

    I am hoping someone doesn't see them as a threat and buy them out to get them out of the market.
     
  17. Scrabo

    Scrabo Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,826
    Location:
    PHX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scrabo
    >> I am hoping someone doesn't see them as a threat ......


    Highly unlikely...... based on what I have seen so far
     
  18. tmyers

    tmyers En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    4,093
    Location:
    Kettering, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim Myers
    How long have you been flying with an iFly?
     
  19. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,851
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Drake the Outlaw
    Doubt this question was aimed at me, but...

    I've had mine for right at a year.
     
  20. tmyers

    tmyers En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    4,093
    Location:
    Kettering, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim Myers
    Goin on two with mine
     
  21. Scrabo

    Scrabo Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,826
    Location:
    PHX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scrabo
    6 months, sold it and got an iPad with a Ff sub for 3 months and switched to Wingx, that was 2 years ago amd happy ever since
     
  22. Art VanDelay

    Art VanDelay Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,409
    Location:
    Del Boca Vista
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Art VanDelay
    I was perfectly happy with my WingX but much of the time I couldn't see it in my cockpit. When I saw what a difference the iFly 720 had in bright sunlight I was sold.
     
  23. tmyers

    tmyers En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    4,093
    Location:
    Kettering, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim Myers
    We are defiantly a diverse group. Each has their own preferences.
     
  24. walterman

    walterman Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Fairview, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Walter
    Hey guys, Walter here from Adventure Pilot (I created the iFly GPS). I noticed this thread decided to respond to a few of the comments:

    Scrabo: "Why bother entering an already over crowned marketplace this late in the game"

    Jonesy "I just downloaded it and my initial reaction is it's pretty ugly. Resolution even on textual screens looks like you're looking at a 1980's PC monitor."

    Jonesy "No contiguous maps"

    These are fair comments. Personally I don't think it's too late to enter the iPad market. I think that space is only now becoming mature; future generations of tablet hardware will be even better, so this market will only grow.

    If you feel our graphics are too blocky...well, okay...I have no response to that. Our first release was focused on performance, stability, and code reuse (100% of our features were ported!). Future releases will include anti-aliased drawing, OpenGL, etc. "Pretty" just wasn't our focus for the first release. But in my humble opinion, it's not bad.

    As to our non-contiguous maps: Sectionals will automatically transition as you fly, and it's one touch to load any sectional, so this isn't typically perceived as a big issue.

    Here is something I recommend you try: At a reasonable zoom level, try taking a screen shot of our charts, then take the same shot on an app of your choice. Then compare the images. See which app has better, easier to read, maps.

    This is one of the things we're bringing to the game. But there is more. Everybody gets a free 30 day trial, so I welcome you to give it a try.

    Happy to answer more questions if you have any.

    Thanks!
    Walter
     
  25. Scrabo

    Scrabo Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,826
    Location:
    PHX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scrabo
    >> Personally I don't think it's too late to enter the iPad market. I think that space is only now becoming mature;

    I have disagree with you on that one.... Bendix King entered the market with myWingman just at the same time AOPA released FlyQ, both basically the same product written by the same vendor. BK in less than a year on the market are silently backing out of the marketplace, they just couldnt get the market share to make it worth while.
    Cant speak for FlyQ subs but they cant be that great.

    A Ff, WingX or Garmin user is not going to jump to another vendor unless there is a real product differentiator
     
  26. Jim_R

    Jim_R Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,196
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jim
    Competition's usually good for the consumer. Walter's the one who'll suffer if his product doesn't compete well, not us. Whether he's making a mistake or not will be determined as time goes by.
     
  27. tmyers

    tmyers En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    4,093
    Location:
    Kettering, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim Myers
    Hey Walter, good to see you on POA
     
  28. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    16,336
    Location:
    Dallas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Spike Cutler
    Every one I know who has gotten the iFly device has been very satisfied with it, so expanding the franchise with tablet versions seems a good move to me. Says I, "Best of luck!"
     
  29. JGoodish

    JGoodish Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,317
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JGoodish
    Doesn't sound like you know much about ForeFlight. Yes, the "Pro" version includes some features that others include as part of their base price, but it also includes some features that others don't include at all. The overlap is fairly minimal from what I can see, although I do get the sense that they're driving revenue by biasing even minor new features toward "Pro."

    They didn't "backtrack" on ADS-B traffic, the reality of ADS-B implementation progressed enough over time that implementing traffic became more practical.

    Apps like WingX are a great example of why "style" matters, perhaps more than "substance." While WingX is decent, most of the features aren't well implemented and I found bugs in certain areas (such as course calculation) which never seemed to get fixed. FF seems to do a good job of balancing style and substance, so that you get fairly full functionality with an intuitive (and accurate) presentation.

    With that being said, competition is a good thing. It has a positive effect on FF and the other competitors in the market, and we as consumers are the winners.


    JKG
     
  30. Challenged

    Challenged Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,425
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Challenged
    I actually really like the interface. I appreciate the fact that I don't have to hop around back to a menu screen to get things done, it's all available right in front of me. Also, not being locked into a single external device (tablet or ADS-B) is really important to me as well.
     
  31. tmyers

    tmyers En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    4,093
    Location:
    Kettering, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim Myers
    Have you customized the info on the screen yet (instruments)?
     
  32. Challenged

    Challenged Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,425
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Challenged
    A little bit. I may have to fly with it a few times in order to figure out my own preferences though.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
     
  33. tmyers

    tmyers En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    4,093
    Location:
    Kettering, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim Myers
    When beta testing I would fly all over the country using the simulator mode to figure out what I really wanted to see on the screen, and set up three different instrument sets with varying instruments.
     
  34. Scrabo

    Scrabo Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,826
    Location:
    PHX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scrabo
    >> They didn't "backtrack" on ADS-B traffic, the reality of ADS-B implementation progressed enough over time that implementing traffic became more practical.

    From their own blog post entitled "Pings, Pucks, and Why No Traffic on Stratus"


    .... "As we get closer to 2020, ADS-B out adoption will grow. However, until ADS-B Out adoption is more widespread, ForeFlight Mobile will not be showing traffic data from the system to avoid this situation."

    Sounds like backtracking to me and within one year of the blog post..
     
  35. Art VanDelay

    Art VanDelay Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,409
    Location:
    Del Boca Vista
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Art VanDelay
    Well here's one that did ! Like I said I love my wing x but what good is it when I can't see it.
     
  36. Scrabo

    Scrabo Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,826
    Location:
    PHX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Scrabo
    You jumped to the ifly gps unit, not the app.

    Its the app thats late to the game