I wish i had learned these during primary training

[iWantWings]

Sure, private pilot students will likely be told that a private pilot certificiate is a "license" to learn. No doubt it is so. But there are some things i wish i had learned during training, or at least been demonstrated. Things like:

1. Do turning, intentionally uncordinated stalls (power on and power off) and recover from them before entering a spin.
2. Recover from a fully-developped spin.
3. Decide on, and execute the "impossible turn" (power-to-idle).
4. Do Unxpected (to me) power-to-idle landings from a place other than the pattern (would've liked an actual power-off, but surely that's a big "No-no!").
5. Restart engine in-flight (actual, not simulated).

There are probably reasons/good reasons for not demonstrating these (like placcards against intentional spins, "unnecessry risk", avoiding is sufficient, etc. ) i but would've liked to do more than just read about them or watch on youtube.

And so learning ain't over (not that it will ever be).

 

[Vaflier]

Go fly with an aerobatics instructor. He will show you all of these things and more. Great training and truly valuable. If you ever spin a plane and you have not seen it before it will scare the crap out of you. Do a couple and they become fun. They should be taught as part of your education.

 

[bdlarkin]

5. Restart engine in-flight (actual, not simulated).

Did this one. It was during my instrument ticket though, not primary training. Idle was set too low on a Cessna 172. Power off stalls under the hood. Pull power to idle, pulled back on the yoke, stall.....And all of a sudden it got REAL quiet in the cockpit. Because we we in a stall the prop stopped straight up (no windmilling)

I was a half beat behind my instructor as we ran through the (memorized) engine out procedures and she fired right back up as soon as turned on the starter.

Good experience, but wasn't much fun.




Brian

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[GCA319]

I coverall of these exept for 2 and 5 with my primary students. I don't cover2 because the airplane I do most of my teaching in is not approved for intentional spins (though I do reccomend they get spin training with another local CFI in his Decathlon once they get there ticket) and I don't do 5 because I'm not an idiot.

 

[GCA319]

And I should add that I only simulate number 3 at altitude to keep things relatively safe.

 

[bbchien]

If you're trying to certify on limited $$s, these are all problems- they're not on the PTS. My students, with only one exception, had every one of these covered by their checkride.

It depends on your attitude toward your initial flight training. You are free always, to go back after PVT ASEL and get these things done.

 

[Silvaire]

...5. Restart engine in-flight (actual, not simulated)...

It's much too dangerous

 

[iWantWings]

Go fly with an aerobatics instructor. He will show you all of these things and more. Great training and truly valuable. If you ever spin a plane and you have not seen it before it will scare the crap out of you. Do a couple and they become fun. They should be taught as part of your education.

As far as fully-developed spins, sure looks like I'll be taking a few hours in an aerobatic plane - found a school with a Citabria. I have not spoken to the CFI yet but I wonder to what extent the things I experience/learn in the Citabria I can apply to the C172 that I normally rent. Either way, it can only help.

Another thing I begin considering is a glider rating. Found a place not far from where I live and besides enjoying it a great deal, it should really help me when my C172 becomes a very poor glider.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[iWantWings]

Did this one. It was during my instrument ticket though, not primary training. Idle was set too low on a Cessna 172. Power off stalls under the hood. Pull power to idle, pulled back on the yoke, stall.....And all of a sudden it got REAL quiet in the cockpit. Because we we in a stall the prop stopped straight up (no windmilling)

I was a half beat behind my instructor as we ran through the (memorized) engine out procedures and she fired right back up as soon as turned on the starter.

Good experience, but wasn't much fun.


Brian

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Although it's part of my checklist to do "power to idle and carbheat ON", there's no guarantee that if the check passes on the ground, it would not fail in the air. Great that you experienced it in the air with your CFI, and, it was also not "orchestrated". As you said, good experience for you. A time when altitude is you friend

 

[iWantWings]

I coverall of these exept for 2 and 5 with my primary students. I don't cover2 because the airplane I do most of my teaching in is not approved for intentional spins (though I do reccomend they get spin training with another local CFI in his Decathlon once they get there ticket) and I don't do 5 because I'm not an idiot.

And I should add that I only simulate number 3 at altitude to keep things relatively safe.

Good to hear; I'll get more details from an aerobatic CFI in a Citabria and see what I can expect.

 

[iWantWings]

If you're trying to certify on limited $$s, these are all problems- they're not on the PTS. My students, with only one exception, had every one of these covered by their checkride.

It depends on your attitude toward your initial flight training. You are free always, to go back after PVT ASEL and get these things done.

I guess the current PP ASEL PTS is aimed at keeping me out of the most serious trouble, not how to intentionally get into it and then safely out. Yes, this would also increase the cost by a factor.

It's good that I have options, as you mentioned, post primary training. I owe it to myself, passengers, and others to learn these things - and, in the name of "safety" is how I can also justify a little more fun

 

[iWantWings]

It's much too dangerous

LOL, that is insane

 

[Hank S]

Sure, private pilot students will likely be told that a private pilot certificiate is a "license" to learn. No doubt it is so. But there are some things i wish i had learned during training, or at least been demonstrated. Things like:

1. Do turning, intentionally uncordinated stalls (power on and power off) and recover from them before entering a spin.
2. Recover from a fully-developped spin.
3. Decide on, and execute the "impossible turn" (power-to-idle).
4. Do Unxpected (to me) power-to-idle landings from a place other than the pattern (would've liked an actual power-off, but surely that's a big "No-no!").
5. Restart engine in-flight (actual, not simulated).

There are probably reasons/good reasons for not demonstrating these (like placcards against intentional spins, "unnecessry risk", avoiding is sufficient, etc. ) i but would've liked to do more than just read about them or watch on youtube.

And so learning ain't over (not that it will ever be).

#1 & #4 were covered in my PPL training and checkride. I remember giving the DPE a close look at a bean field; after I asked how low to go, he said he'd let me know. As I lined up and went to Flaps 20, he said he thought I had the field made with good wind correction so I powered up, cleaned up and headed away to somewhere higher.

#3 is a Commercial maneuver.

I've not flown a plane rated and equipped for #2. My Owners Manual forbids spins in all capitals, further warning that recovery from a 1-turn spin can take 1000' or more.

Don't care to do #5. But I know people who do, running a tank dry on purpose before switching.

 

[HighFlyingA380]

#3 is a Commercial maneuver.

Uh, I think you're confusing the power-off 180 with the impossible turn. the 180 is a commercial maneuver done from the pattern, while the impossible turn is done right after departure in a totally different configuration/scenario. Sure, practicing the 180 in commercial helps with the impossible turn, but it's still not a substitution.

 

[dell30rb]

It's much too dangerous

Nice!

I've always wondered if the motor stalled and prop stopped on the cub, would a 100MPH dive be enough to get it going again?

I think so, but haven't tried.

 

[Hank S]

The impossible turn is a good thing to practice at altitude with a CFI, to determine minimum altitude and correct bank angle & airspeed if you ever need it. Altitude and airspeed are make/model specific, and maybe airframe too; best airspeed is well above Best Glide.

 

[denverpilot]

I had done all of those before my PPL checkride. Super thankful for a thorough CFI. I was too young and stupid to know any better then.

 

[LDJones]

I'd done all of the above when I trained 35 years ago. The night before my check ride he pulled the power to idle and said, "You can't have it back until we are down and parked." So I put it down on a deserted county highway...no shortage of those in ND before the oil boom! When we were stopped he said, "Ok, you're ready for your ride."

I suspect he wouldn't have done that in a low wing.

 

[rbridges]

I'd done all of the above when I trained 35 years ago. The night before my check ride he pulled the power to idle and said, "You can't have it back until we are down and parked." So I put it down on a deserted county highway...no shortage of those in ND before the oil boom! When we were stopped he said, "Ok, you're ready for your ride."

I suspect he wouldn't have done that in a low wing.

wow, that must have been an experience.

 

[denverpilot]

I'd done all of the above when I trained 35 years ago. The night before my check ride he pulled the power to idle and said, "You can't have it back until we are down and parked." So I put it down on a deserted county highway...no shortage of those in ND before the oil boom! When we were stopped he said, "Ok, you're ready for your ride."

I suspect he wouldn't have done that in a low wing.

Mine let me have it back at about 10' above the [insert unknown vegetable here] field. Had to miss the power line at the road to get down there, too.

 

[NineThreeKilo]

1. Do turning, intentionally uncordinated stalls (power on and power off) and recover from them before entering a spin.

Good idea, I like to do them when Im teaching in a plane that is certified for it (172, 150, some PA28s, 7EC, etc).


Tell your CFI you want to work on this, be sure he's a good stick though

2. Recover from a fully-developped spin.

Probably would be combining this with #1 anyway

FYI back when the FAA was called the CAA, this was required before you got your private.

3. Decide on, and execute the "impossible turn" (power-to-idle).

Very good idea too, tell your CFI you want to work on this, again be sure he's a good stick though

4. Do Unxpected (to me) power-to-idle landings from a place other than the pattern (would've liked an actual power-off, but surely that's a big "No-no!").

Same as #3, just ask to practice inopportune engine failures

5. Restart engine in-flight (actual, not simulated).

This I'm NOT a fan of, outside of a multi engine aircraft.


You are creating an ACTUAL (as in live) emergency here.


If for some reason that fan doesnt start back up, it's going to fun telling the people you meet on the ground and the ones who will be talking to you on the phone, that you killed your ONE engine... on purpose.





Now as for the spins and acro stuff. DO AS MUCH OF IT AS YOU CAN IN THE TYPE OF PLANE YOU NORMALLY FLY!


I'd rather a 172 pilot be proficiant in spinning and recovering a 172 then an Extra or 7ECA.


Sure it would be fun to play acro pilot in a high roll rate full acro plane, but it's better for YOU to learn to fly the FULL ENVLOPE of the plane you plan on normally flying, if at all possible... IMO

 

[danhagan]

Don't care to do #5. But I know people who do, running a tank dry on purpose before switching.

Running a tank dry isn't a big deal ... hopefully you don't wait five minutes after its dry to re-start. What most people call "dry" wil actually be first hesitation, prop wind milling, boost pump on switch tanks and away we go. Nobody I know burns one tank completely and switchs to a full un-used tank due to imbalance. I burn 8 gallons and switch tanks for balance. I normally don't have to run one dry, but have done it in cruise on purpose after purchase to insure what full capacity after fill -up and check fuel burn(s).