I think I screwed up majorly with my medical - please help

[floopiedoopie]

I filled out the form on medxpress. It's the FAA's new electronic application system. Being the honest person that I am, I made sure to put down that many years ago I had a suicide attempt, was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, dysthymia, and insomnia. I also added that now my current diagnosis is only ADHD.

My instructor lost his crap and told me I will spend the next two years of my life jumping through 5 figure$ hoops just to get a class 3 medical.

They state here (under 'How long will ...') that applications are deleted after 60 days if you do not go for an examination.

Should I just let the application be deleted after the 60 day period that they state and not submit that information next time? I definitely don't have tens of thousands of dollars and dozens of hours to spend getting every psych evaluation that exists. This greatly upsets me as flying is my only real passion.

 

[floopiedoopie]

Was the thread closed or something? I can't see my original post

 

[AggieMike88]

All I see from you is the above.

Give it another shot. But in the right forum, Medical Topics.

 

[Jim Logajan]

Was the thread closed or something? I can't see my original post

Was there a web link in your first post? I believe all such posts from recently registered users are held for moderator approval, so they don't show up right away.

Otherwise try posting it again.

 

[HighFlyingA380]

I could see the original post a little while ago just fine. And IIRC, no web link or anything, just plain text.

 

[jesse]

Post became hidden because it was edited to include a link by a user with a low post count. Post has been approved. Also moved to the appropriate forum.

 

[Doggtyred]

I filled out the form on medxpress. It's the FAA's new electronic application system. Being the honest person that I am, I made sure to put down that many years ago I had a suicide attempt, was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, dysthymia, and insomnia. I also added that now my current diagnosis is only ADHD.

My instructor lost his crap and told me I will spend the next two years of my life jumping through 5 figure$ hoops just to get a class 3 medical.

They state here (under 'How long will ...') that applications are deleted after 60 days if you do not go for an examination.

Should I just let the application be deleted after the 60 day period that they state and not submit that information next time? I definitely don't have tens of thousands of dollars and dozens of hours to spend getting every psych evaluation that exists. This greatly upsets me as flying is my only real passion.

So you are looking for someone to say its ok to omit disclosing the suicide attempt and behavioral diagnoses? There's a reason some conditions are disqualifying.

 

[cg2112]

I filled out the form on medxpress. It's the FAA's new electronic application system. Being the honest person that I am, I made sure to put down that many years ago I had a suicide attempt, was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, dysthymia, and insomnia. I also added that now my current diagnosis is only ADHD.

My instructor lost his crap and told me I will spend the next two years of my life jumping through 5 figure$ hoops just to get a class 3 medical.

They state here (under 'How long will ...') that applications are deleted after 60 days if you do not go for an examination.

Should I just let the application be deleted after the 60 day period that they state and not submit that information next time? I definitely don't have tens of thousands of dollars and dozens of hours to spend getting every psych evaluation that exists. This greatly upsets me as flying is my only real passion.

You're going to have to go through all the hoops.
If you've been diagnosed, the FAA is going to know. The fact that you have a current diagnosis of ADHD is the killer.

An ADHD diagnosis is disqualifying. Additionally, the medications used to treat ADHD are also disqualifying. If you're diagnosed with ADHD, or if you're taking the meds to treat ADHD, you can't fly, basically.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

You're going to have to go through all the hoops.
If you've been diagnosed, the FAA is going to know. The fact that you have a current diagnosis of ADHD is the killer.

An ADHD diagnosis is disqualifying. Additionally, the medications used to treat ADHD are also disqualifying. If you're diagnosed with ADHD, or if you're taking the meds to treat ADHD, you can't fly, basically.

You can't get a third class medical.

 

[woodstock]

Isn't this the kind of stuff the system is supposed to catch? And I don't mean just the medical stuff - the decision making, too.

 

[cg2112]

You can't get a third class medical.

True, you could fly LSA. Which is probably what someone who would otherwise get a 3rd class medical (after jumping through all the hoops that someone with a lot of red flags might have to do) might want to do, rather than spend a lot of time and money.

But I would think (and I could be off base here, I'm still learning) that if you have a condition that you know for fact will disqualify you from a 3rd class medical, you aren't eligible (by statute) for a sport certificate, and should not certify yourself. Am I out of line with that?

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

But I would think (and I could be off base here, I'm still learning) that if you have a condition that you know for fact will disqualify you from a 3rd class medical, you aren't eligible (by statute)

I got $50 that says you can't find that statute or any language from the FAA that says that an inability (or difficulity) to get a third class medical makes you automatically ineligible for LSA or glider.

The FAA says (in many places, such as the aeromedical FAQ) that you should consult with your personal physician in to determine if you can safely act as PIC.

I have no idea what the OPs doctor would or would not say about his/her capabilities and/or limitations. And, I ain't no doctor myself.

 

[cg2112]

I got $50 that says you can't find that statute or any language from the FAA that says that an inability (or difficulity) to get a third class medical makes you automatically ineligible for LSA or glider.

The FAA says (in many places, such as the aeromedical FAQ) that you should consult with your personal physician in to determine if you can safely act as PIC.

I have no idea what the OPs doctor would or would not say about his/her capabilities and/or limitations. And, I ain't no doctor myself.

I'm looking, you're right.
Though, it seems strange to me that a condition that would definitely disqualify you for a 3rd class medical is fine for sport certification if your (non-AME) doctor says so.

 

[poadeleted20]

True, you could fly LSA.

With this set of conditions, the OP will have to get his/her personal physician who has full knowledge of the history to agree that s/he is safe to fly, and that may not be possible.

In any event, letting the application lapse and then submitting a new one full of false statements is not the way to go. Not only is it nearly certain the FAA will find out about the lies and deny the application (thus ending any chance of flying even as a Sport Pilot), but there is the potential for Federal felony criminal charges with serious fines and even imprisonment possible -- read the note at the bottom of that application.

 

[poadeleted20]

I got $50 that says you can't find that statute or any language from the FAA that says that an inability (or difficulity) to get a third class medical makes you automatically ineligible for LSA or glider.

That's true up to the point where you are deferred or denied. After that, Sport Pilot is no longer an option. See 61.23(c):

(2) A person using a U.S. driver's license to meet the requirements of this paragraph must--
(i) Comply with each restriction and limitation imposed by that person's U.S. driver's license and any judicial or administrative order applying to the operation of a motor vehicle;
(ii) Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate);
(iii) Not have had his or her most recently issued medical certificate (if the person has held a medical certificate) suspended or revoked or most recent Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate withdrawn; and
(iv) Not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner.

 

[ClimbnSink]

You can fly gliders, balloons, paragliders, hanggliders, ultralights, skydive, base jump, kitesurfing and fpv rc. Folks here are always hating on any hint of adhd, you should probably just buy a boat and start smoking pot.

 

[Doggtyred]

You can fly gliders, balloons, paragliders, hanggliders, ultralights, skydive, base jump, kitesurfing and fpv rc. Folks here are always hating on any hint of adhd, you should probably just buy a boat and start smoking pot.

Is it "folks are always hating" or "the diagnosis is disqualifying and not waiverable with special issuance"?

 

[ClimbnSink]

Seems the add folks get the same 'go away' attitude as the multiple dui folks. Instead of this door is closed but these are open

 

[bbchien]

Oh, you can certify with marijuana use in your past. It'll just cost:

Rehab- for third we can do outpatient rehab, but it's 30 intensive days 8-5PM. $$s.
For Second and First, it's Inpatient. $$$$$$$$$$.

Monitoring program with monthly visits to the HIMS AME, and to the CADC counselor.
Seven months down.

Visit to the HIMS certified Pscyhiatrist and Psychologist- $4,500 easily.
Then a two year minimal monitoring program while speical issued. ...random pee, hair, you name it.

Revisit the Psych and psychologist at one year, if all is negative if the hair studies are negative (you pay for all of them) then you can be cut loose.

********

You cannot certify if a doc has, in the past (and therefore as it's a lifelong disorder) or present, thought you had ADD or ADHD sufficiently to Rx you. You have to disabuse the diagnosis. That means, a HMS Psychologist eval (~$2,500) that has to disabuse the diagnosis, no guarantees.

These are the STANDARDS.

PS You don't have to use HIMS guys, but if the work is inadequate they will just deny you....and it frequently is inadequate. I am done sponsoring guys who do anything BUT the HIMS guys, we want a GOOD evaluation...or success is impossible. The consequences of denial as opposed to expiration....well I think you get it.

 

[Skylane81E]

So a childhood diagnosis of ADHD is a disqualifier?

 

[Unregistered]

So a childhood diagnosis of ADHD is a disqualifier?

I have a first class medical and a 121 career (captain-check airman) I haven't taken Ritalin since the early 90s ( with just about every other boy in my class) , in elementary school and I have never even thought about this on a medical application...as an adult

 

[Unregistered]

So a childhood diagnosis of ADHD is a disqualifier?

There is ADD and "adult ADD" IMO these are different

 

[bbchien]

So a childhood diagnosis of ADHD is a disqualifier?

yes, until the diagnosis is disabused.

I have a first class medical and a 121 career (captain-check airman) I haven't taken Ritalin since the early 90s ( with just about every other boy in my class) , in elementary school and I have never even thought about this on a medical application...as an adult

Oh brother. I sure hope there is no findable insurance record for this, or the first time an "investigation" occurs (see pilot's bill of goods....err... "rights", it's going to look very very bad...). And if you are in your fifities, there's a good chance there is no findable record. But yes, it's grounding until you provide evidence otherwise.

My take on this is not publishable on a public board.

 

[Unregistered]

yes, until the diagnosis is disabused.
Oh brother. I sure hope there is no findable insurance record for this, or the first time an "investigation" occurs (see pilot's bill of goods....err... "rights", it's going to look very very bad...). And if you are in your fifities, there's a good chance there is no findable record. But yes, it's grounding until you provide evidence otherwise.

My take on this is not publishable on a public board.

My parents assure me that I was never diagnosed by my pediatrician but just given Ritalin to help concentrate as it was en vogue in the late eighties ..OK ..but always a shred of chance there is something somewhere ...if there is anything it's in inactive pediatric records from the 80,s . After we moved ,when I was in grade school , my new doctor stopped prescribing me the vitamin r right away . I'm not going to worry about it . I graduated with a 3.90 and I did not have ADD., I was a normal boy bored by anything not about aviation

 

[Henning]

I filled out the form on medxpress. It's the FAA's new electronic application system. Being the honest person that I am, I made sure to put down that many years ago I had a suicide attempt, was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, dysthymia, and insomnia. I also added that now my current diagnosis is only ADHD.

My instructor lost his crap and told me I will spend the next two years of my life jumping through 5 figure$ hoops just to get a class 3 medical.

They state here (under 'How long will ...') that applications are deleted after 60 days if you do not go for an examination.

Should I just let the application be deleted after the 60 day period that they state and not submit that information next time? I definitely don't have tens of thousands of dollars and dozens of hours to spend getting every psych evaluation that exists. This greatly upsets me as flying is my only real passion.

Yeah, you and a bunch of others, jump through the hoops which will likely still lead to a denial or go Pt 103 Ultralight which is low budget as well, the flying is some of the most fun flying available, personally I think the backpack fan chutes are awesome.
I don't know what your CFI went off about, you had to report it, although he could have kept you Sport Pilot I guess, not sure you've eliminated that option just yet though.

 

[Skylane81E]

yes, until the diagnosis is disabused.
Oh brother. I sure hope there is no findable insurance record for this, or the first time an "investigation" occurs (see pilot's bill of goods....err... "rights", it's going to look very very bad...). And if you are in your fifities, there's a good chance there is no findable record. But yes, it's grounding until you provide evidence otherwise.

My take on this is not publishable on a public board.

So what would it take to have it disabused? I know a few potential pilots its ADD/ADHD in their pasts.

 

[Henning]

With Internet pharmacies this whole deal is a charade anyway, although apparently semi effective. You can buy most of these level pharmaceuticals anonymously.

 

[comanchepilot]

So the OP tells us he has a current ADHD diag, after all this other disqualifying psych stuff, and his first thought is to let the medical application lapse in the system?

Is he going to re-apply but delete all the bad stuff?

Or just go sport? He never comes back but I'm thinking given the praise heaped about being honest, I'm hoping he's going sport and not relying on lying. . . . . unfort - even going sport the ADHD is disqual even without applying for a medical - ne pas?

 

[Henning]

No, he's good if he can get a drivers license for Sport Pilot. If allowing the application to expire quietly unrecalled in some auto delete will purge it from existence, I think that would clearly be in his best interest at the moment. Safely operating as a Sport Pilot will potentially get him some leverage down the line. Remember, every individual has the right to sue the govt for privilege, and can win. There is a reason Justice is a separate branch from Executive. All it takes is money. BTW, regardless of medical status, there is nothing preventing anyone from acquiring most all the training and requirements through ATP flying dual with a CFI.

 

[bbchien]

If the OP never gives his download code to a designee, it remains just a file on a server that will indeed get purged after 60 days. It has not been verified. I could create one in the name of the CIC at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, and it would just vanish. However if I picked it up through a federal in-basket, it would then go live and I think the secret service might appear at my door.

So the OP needs just to never go to an AME with that download code, and it'll be gone.

 

[Henning]

If the OP never gives his download code to a designee, it remains just a file on a server that will indeed get purged after 60 days. It has not been verified. I could create one in the name of the CIC at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, and it would just vanish. However if I picked it up through a federal in-basket, it would then go live and I think the secret service might appear at my door.

So the OP needs just to never go to an AME with that download code, and it'll be gone.

And so says OZ the great and terrible, just let that sucker die and fly Sport Pilot. You can get the 2 seat versions of a lot of the good ultralights for not much ore than the single seat versions, that was what SP and LSA was meant for.