I feel really behind...

gcd89

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Greg D.
I feel like I'm really behind as far as knowledge. Like in another thread here, someone was talking about flight following, and different kinds of airspace, and I have next to zero practical knowledge of these things. Or on other flying forums when people are talking about all things like clearances and a whole bunch of crazy stuff I don't get.

Note: I am still a student pilot. Is this knowledge just something can comes with experience, or do I need to buckle down and start studying harder?
 
Your awareness that you need to continue learning about things you don't know is good first step. You'll probably learn what you need to know as you go along, but since you obviously have the ability to enumerate them, it would probably serve you well to make a list (on paper or screen) as they occur to you, and ask your instructor to fill in the blanks as you progress through your training.

I feel like I'm really behind as far as knowledge. Like in another thread here, someone was talking about flight following, and different kinds of airspace, and I have next to zero practical knowledge of these things. Or on other flying forums when people are talking about all things like clearances and a whole bunch of crazy stuff I don't get.

Note: I am still a student pilot. Is this knowledge just something can comes with experience, or do I need to buckle down and start studying harder?
 
How far along are you in your student training?

Knowledge comes with both experience and studying. It really does need both. So, I would say, don't worry too much, but still maybe read a little something new every day to help
 
How far along are you in your student training?

Knowledge comes with both experience and studying. It really does need both. So, I would say, don't worry too much, but still maybe read a little something new every day to help

Just prior to my first XC solo. I last time I tallied my hours I had (38?).

A lot of the things I didn't understand, I read on a professional flying forum filled with Airline pilots and military pilots, so I suppose I was in a little over my head.
 
Well, Greg, you can ask us here, too. There are enough good, skilled and knowledgeable pilots (including quite a few instructors and professionals), that the quality of answers you'll get from the good ones will more than offset the confusing stuff you get from the likes of me. (grin)

---

By the way - Flight Following is sometimes also called, "VFR Traffic Advisories," and it's where you ask the controllers to issue traffic advisories to you as you travel from origin to destination. Controllers are not obligated to do so ("workload permitting") but usually will, and it's a great help.
 
Note: I am still a student pilot. Is this knowledge just something can comes with experience, or do I need to buckle down and start studying harder?

Buckle down and study harder. If you need book recommendations, just ask and many here will be glad to give some.
 
Just curious, have you taken your written yet? Do you and your instructor do any ground work together?
 
Just curious, have you taken your written yet? Do you and your instructor do any ground work together?

My questions too.

One of the best ideas given to me to help with oral prep (unfortunately given AFTER I had completed) was to get a copy of the PTS guide and make some study flash cards. Cover all of the questions and topics contained in the PTS. Cary this deck with you and use it to review when you get a few minutes. Also hand them to a friend or family member to quiz you with.

Studying for and passing the written will also go a long way toward boosting your confidence.

Your instructor should be proving you some guidance on this. And an be a good cheerleader as you study.
 
A lot of the things I didn't understand, I read on a professional flying forum filled with Airline pilots and military pilots, so I suppose I was in a little over my head.

FYI, I AM one of those and I choose not to frequent those forums, for some reason. :no: Don't really know why. :)
 
I'm confused... does KPIE (in your sig) indicate the towered airport under the 1200' shelf of the Tampa Bravo? If yes, well I'm very puzzled in that I would expect you to know quite a bit about airspaces at least.

Hours vary all over the place but I would expect you to have had airspace questions on a pre-solo test and flight following training before a dual XC.

Any of the PP books should explain all of this, along with FAR/AIM and the like.
 
Well, Greg, you can ask us here, too. There are enough good, skilled and knowledgeable pilots (including quite a few instructors and professionals), that the quality of answers you'll get from the good ones will more than offset the confusing stuff you get from the likes of me. (grin)

Yes, I forget that I have this resource and will try to remember it in the future.

Just curious, have you taken your written yet? Do you and your instructor do any ground work together?

Nope. We haven't done ground in a long time. The summer I started, it rained EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND, so we did ground. So I'm practically done with ground lessons. So we don't touch on it so much anymore.

My questions too.

One of the best ideas given to me to help with oral prep (unfortunately given AFTER I had completed) was to get a copy of the PTS guide and make some study flash cards. Cover all of the questions and topics contained in the PTS. Cary this deck with you and use it to review when you get a few minutes. Also hand them to a friend or family member to quiz you with.

Studying for and passing the written will also go a long way toward boosting your confidence.

Your instructor should be proving you some guidance on this. And an be a good cheerleader as you study.

Yeah...what does the PTS guide look like. I may have the Jepp version. What does the cover look like? And my instructor is an amazing pilot (I don't have much basis for comparison, though), but he's not really a teacher, I guess.

I'm confused... does KPIE (in your sig) indicate the towered airport under the 1200' shelf of the Tampa Bravo? If yes, well I'm very puzzled in that I would expect you to know quite a bit about airspaces at least.

Hours vary all over the place but I would expect you to have had airspace questions on a pre-solo test and flight following training before a dual XC.

Any of the PP books should explain all of this, along with FAR/AIM and the like.

We've only done 2 XC's and they were a long tme ago (I'm a once-a-weeker), so I haven't really LEFT the airport that much. Even when we did, we were still in the airspace. The only rule I've learned about Bravo is "Only enter when you're told you can, and don't break 1200' until you cross this checkpoint."

And my pre-solo test was open book.
 
The PTS has what you must know. But not everything you need to know.

The rest is either covered in advanced ratings or picked up over many years and CFIs. ;)

If you're having a hard time with it just being "stuff in a book", sit down at home and spread a chart out and pretend you're planning a trip from your home airport to a destination on the same chart. (multiple charts is a lesson later on).

Draw a line on your chart. Now look up in the chart legend everything along your route. Every symbol. Every colored line. If you don't know what they mean, keep a notepad handy, write a number 1 on the notepad and a number 1 big on the chart so you can find it later, and write down what you think it is. Then ask your CFI to go over it later with you.

Also fill out a flight log. Calculate how much time it will take at your airplane's speeds to go that route. Calculate fuel burn. Calculate everything. Take this to your CFI also.

Finally pull up the current weather along that route and think about go/no-go. Is the weather good? Bad? What factors are going to change it? When? For how long? Recalculate your times and fuel with the current winds aloft. Print these out and take 'em along too.

These are all things you should be doing at the first X-C or right around that time. You're learning how to make your own decisions, you need a system you trust to lay out all the data so you can make a good one, if you plan to be alive to fly another day.

Ask your instructor about memorization techniques for airspace, checklists, legal requirements for flight, etc. There's a bunch of ways to memorize that stuff. They'll help you.

Just remember, the final test is closed-book. Both written and oral. And then you must show mastery of the flight items in the PTS. All three are required to walk out of the DE's office with a smile on your face.
 
The PTS has what you must know. But not everything you need to know.

The rest is either covered in advanced ratings or picked up over many years and CFIs. ;)

If you're having a hard time with it just being "stuff in a book", sit down at home and spread a chart out and pretend you're planning a trip from your home airport to a destination on the same chart. (multiple charts is a lesson later on).

Draw a line on your chart. Now look up in the chart legend everything along your route. Every symbol. Every colored line. If you don't know what they mean, keep a notepad handy, write a number 1 on the notepad and a number 1 big on the chart so you can find it later, and write down what you think it is. Then ask your CFI to go over it later with you.

Also fill out a flight log. Calculate how much time it will take at your airplane's speeds to go that route. Calculate fuel burn. Calculate everything. Take this to your CFI also.

Finally pull up the current weather along that route and think about go/no-go. Is the weather good? Bad? What factors are going to change it? When? For how long? Recalculate your times and fuel with the current winds aloft. Print these out and take 'em along too.

These are all things you should be doing at the first X-C or right around that time. You're learning how to make your own decisions, you need a system you trust to lay out all the data so you can make a good one, if you plan to be alive to fly another day.

Ask your instructor about memorization techniques for airspace, checklists, legal requirements for flight, etc. There's a bunch of ways to memorize that stuff. They'll help you.

Just remember, the final test is closed-book. Both written and oral. And then you must show mastery of the flight items in the PTS. All three are required to walk out of the DE's office with a smile on your face.

This helps!
 
Yeah...what does the PTS guide look like. I may have the Jepp version. What does the cover look like? And my instructor is an amazing pilot (I don't have much basis for comparison, though), but he's not really a teacher, I guess.
See the attachment. There may be other versions, but this was the one both my instructor and examiner used.

And always remember that your instructor wants you to pass every thing and succeed. Review for the oral/practical and written may be around the corner. Just ask what his plans are and if he is willing to set up some study sessions.

Much if not all can be learned on your own (I did 85-90% on my own with the Gleim material), but instructor review is valuable in learning some of the "why" and tips on remembering key bits, like why you want your tomatoes sporting a flame job.
 

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Greg,

If I understand correctly, you have yet to take your written test. At 38 hours, you REALLY need to get it knocked out because you will be facing the check ride before you know it.

If you have yet to do so, you need to select your study material for the written, either video or a study guide book and work through it. This will help alot to allow what you learned in ground school to sink in.

Doc
 
I disagree on how quick to study and take the test. I buckled down and started reviewing (King Schools was my choice) and in 2 months went through all of the instructional stuff and did practice test after practice test. Finally I decided to just go take it. That was about 10 months ago. If I would've waited I would've done much better. I passed on my first attempt but I know what I didn't know before. Could've gotten alot better of a score. Communicate with your instructor. Don't like his ground school instruction and don't feel like supporting the Kings/Gleim/Jeppessen I'm sure there is someone who can get you up to speed (another CFI maybe for just ground)

~Kate
 
I'm not concerned how he does it, at this point he just needs to get it done. He is 38 hours into it. I did mine too early also, but he is NOT that early in the cycle.

Doc
 
I feel like I'm really behind as far as knowledge. Like in another thread here, someone was talking about flight following, and different kinds of airspace, and I have next to zero practical knowledge of these things. Or on other flying forums when people are talking about all things like clearances and a whole bunch of crazy stuff I don't get.

Note: I am still a student pilot. Is this knowledge just something can comes with experience, or do I need to buckle down and start studying harder?

Both, you need to buckle down and study AND you need to gain experience. Luckily, that is what being a Student Pilot is all about.
 
Greg,

If I understand correctly, you have yet to take your written test. At 38 hours, you REALLY need to get it knocked out because you will be facing the check ride before you know it.

If you have yet to do so, you need to select your study material for the written, either video or a study guide book and work through it. This will help alot to allow what you learned in ground school to sink in.

Doc

didn't think I could take it yet
 
I disagree on how quick to study and take the test. I buckled down and started reviewing (King Schools was my choice) and in 2 months went through all of the instructional stuff and did practice test after practice test. Finally I decided to just go take it. That was about 10 months ago. If I would've waited I would've done much better. I passed on my first attempt but I know what I didn't know before. Could've gotten alot better of a score. Communicate with your instructor. Don't like his ground school instruction and don't feel like supporting the Kings/Gleim/Jeppessen I'm sure there is someone who can get you up to speed (another CFI maybe for just ground)

~Kate

You don't need one. The only reason I would advise someone to wait on their written once they get past the point they can pass it is because they are going about their training so slowly that the written will expire before they get around to the ride.

Doing the written early and making you aware that there was this body of knowledge you still needed may have actually worked to your advantage as a wake-up of how much you still need to learn and study for your oral and checkride. The writtens you want to have a 92-94% on are your CFI/FOI writtens as very likely a Fed will be giving you that checkride. Scoring 100% on writtens I don't think is a good thing because then the examiner needs to remind you all the more that you aren't perfect.
 
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didn't think I could take it yet

You don't need a student certificate, a medical, or have any logged hours at all to take the written test. I studied for it, and took it, before I had even contacted a flight instructor. However, one does need a sign-off from an instructor or a computer program to take the test. An instructor and a computer program have a lot in common when it comes to checking whether a student is ready to take the written. :wink2: So I bought the Gleim student kit that included the appropriate software, and used that to get my authorization. Then went and took the written. I got one question wrong, which is worse than getting a lot of them wrong: Oh so close!
 
didn't think I could take it yet

Why? You'll need a sign off from a CFI, but you can take the written anytime, even before your first flight (which I don't recommend but have seen done).
 
I'm in the "get ground done now" camp myself.

He's not early. Much of ground study circles around WX, nav, and regs. If Greg's prepping for solo XC flights he needs all of those now. Plus there is an element of accomplishment... it's a milestone and not a trivial one.

As for before first flight... I know several people who did that because they could do ground as a college credit course (at a city/community college IIRC). Outside of that special case, and people who are hoping to do one of the accelerator courses (take X weeks to finish) I agree it's probably not good.
 
I'm also at ~39 hours and ready for my XC solo. I did ground school six months ago but did not take the written. On one hand, I wish I had gotten it out of the way. On the other hand, had I taken it then, I imagine I'd need to review the material again for the oral and checkride anyway.
 
I'm also at ~39 hours and ready for my XC solo. I did ground school six months ago but did not take the written. On one hand, I wish I had gotten it out of the way. On the other hand, had I taken it then, I imagine I'd need to review the material again for the oral and checkride anyway.
:confused::confused::confused: How do you know what material you need to review until you take the test?
 
I'm taking my checkride on 7/8 (weather permitting), and took the written about 6 weeks ago. I have no regrets about getting it DONE. I got a 90. TAKE THE TEST. Getting it done freed up alot of study time to focus on XC planning and getting solo time.

The brush up that I'm doing in prep for the solo is on things more specific to my aircraft (v-speeds, emergency procs, systems knowledge).

I still am amazed that these crazy people are willing to let me operate an airplane with little or no supervision. :hairraise:
 
Yes, I forget that I have this resource and will try to remember it in the future.



Nope. We haven't done ground in a long time. The summer I started, it rained EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND, so we did ground. So I'm practically done with ground lessons. So we don't touch on it so much anymore.

My questions too.



Yeah...what does the PTS guide look like. I may have the Jepp version. What does the cover look like? And my instructor is an amazing pilot (I don't have much basis for comparison, though), but he's not really a teacher, I guess.



We've only done 2 XC's and they were a long tme ago (I'm a once-a-weeker), so I haven't really LEFT the airport that much. Even when we did, we were still in the airspace. The only rule I've learned about Bravo is "Only enter when you're told you can, and don't break 1200' until you cross this checkpoint."

And my pre-solo test was open book.

Black mark against your instructor. FAR 61.105 says that you must receive and log ground training in a number of subjects. There should be ground training associated with every flight. Note that "ground training" does not mean "ground school." There is no regulatory requirement that any Part 61 student attend a ground school.

It's nice that your instructor is a great pilot (although I have to wonder how greatness is determined by a student pilot) but what you need is a great instructor.

Bob Gardner
 
We've only done 2 XC's and they were a long tme ago (I'm a once-a-weeker), so I haven't really LEFT the airport that much. Even when we did, we were still in the airspace. The only rule I've learned about Bravo is "Only enter when you're told you can, and don't break 1200' until you cross this checkpoint."

And my pre-solo test was open book.


This isn't a big issue, but it can become one in some circumstances. It is actually "Only enter with a clearance". I know that it sounds like I'm picking nits, and I kinda am, but proper nomenclature is important in aviation.

We use specific words to represent specific thoughts/actions/things. We have a standardized pilot/controller glossary so we all use the same words to represent ideas and actions in order to prevent confusion. When you say to someone "Only enter when you're told you can" leaves open, "Told by who?", where as a clearance is issued by ATC.

I realize that we are here on a web board where it doesn't matter, and the reality is that you most likely know that you need a clearance from ATC, not an Okeedokee from your CFI to go blasting into the B. The issue is one of getting in the habit of using the proper vocabulary all the time, even to the point that you think in the proper vocabulary so when things are getting ugly and "communicate" is at the bottom of the list of Aviate, Navigate and Communicate you want to make sure you don't waste any more time, thought or be misunderstood when it's critical that it all goes well.
 
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It's possible you've gone through much of the data but pilot training is sometimes like drinking through a fire hose. A good book to read through is "Airplane Flying Handbook". You can also look up Rod Machado's books.
Personally speaking, and I am not an instructor, it might be nice to take a fun flight with a buddy who isn't an instructor to see how he does things. A few years ago, I had a friend that had a number of issues about flying into controlled airports. We went for a trip to a nearby class D and I walked him through the whole process.
The experience made him realize he'd gone through it several times with his instructor. He just didn't isolate that particular training experience until that was the principle focus. Sometimes it is good to walk through something with an impartial observer.
 
The only reason I would advise someone to wait on their written once they get past the point they can pass it is because they are going about their training so slowly that the written will expire before they get around to the ride.

I agree with Henning, only for me, the written about to expire was what motivated me to take the check ride. Worked for both my PPL and Instrument Rating.
 
I really don't like when students wait untill they are about to take the checkride to take the written. Sure, make sure you can take the checkride before the test results expire, but do an honest job trying to prepare and take it as soon as realistically possible. That way, you have time to learn what you thought you knew, but didnt.That way, you don't try to give a BS answer to a DPE the day after and who will see right through it...
 
I really don't like when students wait untill they are about to take the checkride to take the written. Sure, make sure you can take the checkride before the test results expire, but do an honest job trying to prepare and take it as soon as realistically possible. That way, you have time to learn what you thought you knew, but didnt.That way, you don't try to give a BS answer to a DPE the day after and who will see right through it...


'zactly.
 
Good points. Thanks.
 
This isn't a big issue, but it can become one in some circumstances. It is actually "Only enter with a clearance". I know that it sounds like I'm picking nits, and I kinda am, but proper nomenclature is important in aviation.

We use specific words to represent specific thoughts/actions/things. We have a standardized pilot/controller glossary so we all use the same words to represent ideas and actions in order to prevent confusion. When you say to someone "Only enter when you're told you can" leaves open, "Told by who?", where as a clearance is issued by ATC.

I realize that we are here on a web board where it doesn't matter, and the reality is that you most likely know that you need a clearance from ATC, not an Okeedokee from your CFI to go blasting into the B. The issue is one of getting in the habit of using the proper vocabulary all the time, even to the point that you think in the proper vocabulary so when things are getting ugly and "communicate" is at the bottom of the list of Aviate, Navigate and Communicate you want to make sure you don't waste any more time, thought or be misunderstood when it's critical that it all goes well.

Yes yes, I undertand that, I was just speaking casually for the sake of the internet, but I know what you're saying./
 
Note: I am still a student pilot. Is this knowledge just something can comes with experience, or do I need to buckle down and start studying harder?


Both. ;)

Being able to answer any question on the oral test regarding the stuff you don't have much or any experience with (airspace and FF stuff is a common weak area, it's not just you) will rely mostly on your studying of the regs. But showing you understand how to smoothly deal with ATC-related items in your local area, where you will take your check ride, will come from flying in that area.

As if you needed more tips, here are a few that helped me:
-Ask your instructor a lot of questions about airspace transitions, etc in your area, and ask to do some dual flights that involve that. Or bum a ride with an experienced pilot, and have them show you how they do it. It's not that the regs are different in practice than in the books, but there are nuances. It's a lot like simple "radio fright"... you will get over it by just doing it.

-If passively absorbing stuff from books and videos is not working efficiently, try flash cards. I made mine myself, jotting the questions down as I studied, and just kept working through them, pretty much every day. Chart symbols, runway markings, light gun signals, stuff from the training aircraft POH, and all the airspace, weather and pilot regs that were relevant. I also took notes during ground school, and worked that stuff into the mix. I even used the cards to train me to remember what FAR part or POH chapter was for what topic... the oral will be "open-book", but you will "score" better if you can thumb directly to the correct parts of the books if you need to look something up. After a while I could get through the whole pile of cards without getting any wrong. Then I kept doing that, whenever I had time, including just before the written, the oral and the checkride. They made a huge difference for me. I had a lock on that stuff when I went in for the written- would've aced the written if I hadn't ticked off one wrong multiple-choice answer by mistake (knowledge does not equal intelligence, LOL).
I am convinced that a big part of my success with the cards was that in writing the stuff down, and formulating the info as questions, I got it embedded deeper in my brain, in a more organized way.

-Rather than start sweating the written right now, try a few mock writtens. This will make the real thing much easier. You will see quickly where your knowledge is weak. Like the flash cards, take practice tests often, until it becomes a routine thing. I can almost guarantee your "game" will improve if you just incorporate this kind of study into your life, instead of trying to force the stuff into your head.

- Same goes for the oral. Practice taking it. Have your instructor, or any pilot you know, try to stump you, reading from the FAR/AIM, with material relevant to the PPASEL oral. This could even consist of you and another student, each with a copy of the FAR/AIM, reading questions to each other. Again, playing the teacher can make you a better student; you see the information from a different angle.

-I would NOT advise asking any old airport bum to feed you info direct from their memory... it will likely be outdated or just wrong. ;) :D
 
Note: I am still a student pilot. Is this knowledge just something can comes with experience, or do I need to buckle down and start studying harder?
The latter. Most of us are parital book / partial experience learners. You can't learn with zero experience but you can't learn what you need by experience alone.

So you do both at the same time to make the correlations.

Get studying! 38 hours is pretty far along....
 
The latter. Most of us are parital book / partial experience learners. You can't learn with zero experience but you can't learn what you need by experience alone.

So you do both at the same time to make the correlations.

Get studying! 38 hours is pretty far along....

Lots of studying to be done in 2 hrs....:hairraise:
 
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