Hudson River Exclusion

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by JordanDelaney, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. JordanDelaney

    JordanDelaney Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JordanDelaney
    Hey guys,

    A friend and I are planning to take ourselves and two pax to do a flight up the Hudson river from Syracuse, NY (KSYR). We're looking for suggestions!

    Our plan as of right now is to depart KSYR and proceed to the North end of the Hudson and proceed southbound. We will attempt to pickup Class B clearance and fly the skyline route, however we are planning for worst case scenario which is to fly in the exclusion airspace at 900ft, do 1 half circle over the statue of liberty and proceed back Northbound to land at Westchester (KHPN).

    Anybody who has done this flight in the past who has any comments or suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    4,588
    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad Z
    I've never been denied the skyline route starting from the north or south. On my last trip, starting from the north at 1500, I requested from LGA tower and got a left turn over Central Park, a right turn down the east river, then continue south straight to the lady. Then it was back up the Hudson. Whether or not that will work for you is based on what runways lga is using. Have fun!
     
  3. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    31,266
    First suggestion I have is to go on the FAASafety.gov web site and take the Hudson River SFRA course required by regulation before you fly in that airspace.
    https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC...ID=79&sID=387&searchresults=true&preview=true
    You'll also need to get the NY Terminal Area Chart required by regulation to be in the cockpit for the flight (included in ForeFlight, if you have that). The Hudson River SFRA kneeboard card would also be a good idea.
    http://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/libview_normal.aspx?id=48447
     
  4. MachFly

    MachFly En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,514
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MachFly
    :yeahthat:


    The exclusion corridor is 1000-1300ft. Bellow 1000ft is for landing sea planes and helicopters.
     
  5. redtail

    redtail En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,244
    Location:
    93 million miles from the sun
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Redtail
    ...or circling the Statue of Liberty.

    "* Transient operation: Aircraft transiting the Hudson River Exclusion from end to end without intending to signicantly change heading, altitude, or airspeed.

    ** Local operation: Any aircraft within the Hudson River Exclusion that is conducting an operation other than overflying."


    My suggestion is to proceed southbound as planned via the Skyline Route or as a Transient Operation, then descend to 900' south of the VZ and re-enter as a 'Local Operation' for your orbits around the Statue.

    Fly back to the VZ and exit the corridor before climbing back up to 'Transient' altitude (or request the Skyline Route with Newark tower) for your return trip northbound.

    Don't forget to make your mandatory reporting point calls over the CTAF, during Transient and Local ops!

    Also, it's a good idea for you and your passengers to wear a manual inflatable PFD!

    By the way, from upstate, you're flying down the river:wink2:
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  6. rottydaddy

    rottydaddy En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    3,477
    Location:
    Newark, NJ
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    beaky
    Only other advice I will offer is to remember to scan diligently for traffic, whether you are in the exclusion or being handled on a Skyline route.
    When a fixed wing and heli collided off Hoboken a while back, the heli was making mandatory reports and the airplane was talking to ATC. The radios did nothing for them in that scenario. :no:
     
  7. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    12,844
    Location:
    mass fla
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ron keating
    Take the course,watch for traffic,relax,your going to love the views. Don't forget to report st the reporting points.
     
  8. Mike I

    Mike I Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    591
    Location:
    NYC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mike I
    My suggestion would be to fly in the Class B down the Hudson, do a turn around the Statue, head up the East River then cross Central Park to rejoin the Hudson northbound. Just call up LGA when south of Alpine Tower (126.05) and request Hudson River South to the Lady, back up East River, Central Park, Hudson northbound. They'll likely accommodate you. Probably have you cross Central Park at 2000'.

    When flying around NYC, it can be very helpful to have the Helicopter Route Chart (print version or also available on ForeFlight) as many waypoints are clearly depicted and the airspace boundaries are more visible.
     
  9. Steve Foley

    Steve Foley Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,564
    Location:
    Central Mass
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Steve Foley
    Can you provide a citation to that regulation?
     
  10. Mike I

    Mike I Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    591
    Location:
    NYC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mike I
    There's no requirement to take the course. Only to comply with the regulations governing the SFRA. The course is valuable and people should watch it before flying in the area, but not required.
     
  11. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    31,266
    Mike I is right -- my mistake.
     
  12. jpower

    jpower Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,350
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    James
    I did just the opposite. Flew down the Hudson in the exclusion, then when I was just south of the VZ I did a 180 and called up Newark Tower who let me climb to 1500 and worked on my East River/Central Park transition with LaGuardia. Crossed Central Park, then turned North up the Hudson. It was all pretty seamless and great fun!
     
  13. JordanDelaney

    JordanDelaney Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JordanDelaney
    Thank you all! I will be sure to take plenty of pictures and share them here once I get back!
     
  14. Steve Foley

    Steve Foley Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,564
    Location:
    Central Mass
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Steve Foley
    Thanks. I was worried that I had missed something.
     
  15. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    31,266
    But for goodness sake, please do the course before you fly in there unless you are (as the OP clearly is not) thoroughly familiar with the airspace and the procedures.
     
  16. JordanDelaney

    JordanDelaney Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JordanDelaney
    I got the course done and we will also have all applicable charts on board
     
  17. bkspero

    bkspero Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    367
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    bkspero
    Consider a little longer trip that allows both sides of the plane a direct view of Manhattan and the passenger side a view of the whole island. South to the Statue in the Bravo, north up the Hudson, Central Park transition to the East River, south around the tip of Manhattan, and back north up the Hudson. The outside view of the ground across the cabin from most small GA aircraft is pretty limited.

    In my old age I am cautious about flying there in the winter, though. Not many spots to land in an emergency except for the water. Even with PFDs, you will need timely rescue to survive. For that reason I would only do it during the day even though I think the view is best at night.
     
  18. brooklyn26point2

    brooklyn26point2 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    brooklyn26point2
    Second this suggestion. Flew the skyline route the other day, and crossing central park was really, really cool. We did it around 4:15, and we had this ridiculous view of the sun setting over downtown manhattan. Highly recommend.

    Also highly recommend calling NY's TRACON in advance of the flight. I did it before mine - gave them a couple possible routes, and they pointed out how one would make things a lot easier for everyone, and they gave me all the frequencies I would need and when to contact everyone. They were also really appreciative of the call, since it saved them work during the flight. Kept the workload down while in the area.

    The other thing I'd recommend - if the plane has two radios and you're talking to ATC, monitor the CTAF as a backup. ATC was great when I was there, but it was definitely an awareness boost to keep tabs on everyone in the exclusion.

    Have fun. Oh, I suggest having one of your pax video the flight. You'll get to enjoy the sight, definitely, but not as much as the others in your plane since you'll also be really busy flying/communicating.
     
  19. JordanDelaney

    JordanDelaney Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JordanDelaney
    That's a great idea, didn't even think of it. Do you have the number for NY TRACON?
     
  20. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    4,588
    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad Z
    Unless you're doing the skyline route, in which case ATC will have you on radar and will not want to hear position reports.
     
  21. brooklyn26point2

    brooklyn26point2 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    brooklyn26point2
    Sure - it's 516-683-2901.
     
  22. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,694
    Location:
    New York City
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skip Miller
    Also remember that one of the front seaters has to be PIC. Yes, the view out the window is stunningly distracting, but someone must be looking for traffic ALL THE TIME. It is busy airspace!

    That's why I like the idea of two passes: one for the left seater as Pilot Flying, then one for the right seater.

    I will also ask you to drop the idea of circling the Statue. Steep turns at low altitude in busy airspace are not high in my comfort zone.... Yes, I know lots of pilots do this but still....

    -Skip
     
  23. JordanDelaney

    JordanDelaney Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JordanDelaney
    We will be operating with 2 pilots and 2 pax in the back. It's likely we won't circle the Statue if we find ourselves having to fly below the Class B.
     
  24. jspilot

    jspilot Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,138
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    jspilot
    It is not hard at all. I did it once with an instructor and would feel totally confident doing it again. I flew from the south though but I'm sure it is similar.

    I'd advise not going below the exclusion. The helicopter traffic is crazy and it seems dangerous without radar assistance. I'm pretty sure Newark tower has a guy that just works that corridor of the Hudson as on the day I flew it he only was talking to people flying the Hudson and was not clearing any planes to land or takeoff at Newark.

    And oh yeah- make sure your passengers bring a camera and take a ton of pictures. I have 2 pictures from this trip hanging in my house right now!
     
  25. redtail

    redtail En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,244
    Location:
    93 million miles from the sun
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Redtail
    Local ops from the south.. two orbits around the lady, exit south of the VZ, then the Skyline Route northbound at 1500MSL !

    Weekday morning, very few people out:). I saw two tour helicopters and one NYPD.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  26. redtail

    redtail En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,244
    Location:
    93 million miles from the sun
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Redtail
    [​IMG]
    Taken from my NFlightcam Plus video!
     
  27. noobJohn

    noobJohn Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    473
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    John
    Awesome pics.... I definitely want to do this one of these days.
     
  28. redtail

    redtail En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,244
    Location:
    93 million miles from the sun
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Redtail
    It really is a blast!!!

    Just have to be on your game and keep your head on a swivel. Make ALL mandatory calls! I made a few additional calls just to give a heads-up of my intentions. One prior to reaching Governors, and I also made it clear that I was orbiting the statue (twice), as well as my exit plan.

    I totally agree with Wilbur Wright:yes:

    "It was an interesting trip, and at times rather exciting."– Wilbur Wright (200' MSL)
    September 29, 1909
     
  29. BrianR

    BrianR Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    394
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    BrianR
    Jordan, did you ever make this trip?
     
  30. mtuomi

    mtuomi En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    Messages:
    2,970
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    dera
    The only annoying thing is the helicopter operators, who use the unicom frequency as their "company channel". On a busy day, you cannot get a word in because you are listening to choppers getting instructions about where to refuel and how many pax they have waiting.

    I would avoid any extra announcements, on a busy day, the frequency is REALLY busy and you can step on others wanting to broadcast their location.

    The "critical" point is at the Statue, the traffic crossing over to the east side, especially the choppers doing climbing turns, are dangerous. Apart from that, its pretty well organized.
    It's fun, and the sights are amazing. Definitely worth doing!
     
  31. redtail

    redtail En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,244
    Location:
    93 million miles from the sun
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Redtail
    Yeah I agree, that's why I did it at 0830 on a Monday morning :D

    Very light traffic in the area. I saw and heard probably two helicopters and one fixed wing by the Alpine Tower at 1100. I did two orbits (could have done more if I wanted to) then went back to the VZ where an NYPD helicopter asked me if I had a visual on him as he approached the bridge from Staten Island @500.

    Awesome flight indeed!

    Although I've made this flight several times (first was my discovery flight in 1998 from Teterboro), this was my first trip around the Lady.
    A truly breathtaking experience! :yes:

    Can't remember the last time I did turns around a point, hahaha
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  32. mcmanigle

    mcmanigle Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    332
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    John McManigle
    Yeah, when I did the flight on a winter Sunday night at 8pm, there was nobody else on frequency or in sight. A bit windy/bumpy to get great pictures, but we got a couple.
     
  33. redtail

    redtail En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,244
    Location:
    93 million miles from the sun
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Redtail
    Nice shots!

    Yes very windy and bumpy. I took off from KFRG with a northwest wind at 10G18 and my entire flight was 1500 and below. Some strong winds and good bumps over Ellis but a managed draw a decent circular path ;)