How to Transition from Victor Airway to IAP without a STAR or GPS

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by BrianK, Oct 14, 2022.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Filing Flight Plan

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    Hello,

    I received my instrument rating in 2007 and have been out of flying for the last 10 years. I am looking to get an IPC done in December and have been flying in XPlane with VATSIM. I have come across a situation that I can't remember how to handle.

    How do you file and fly an IFR flight plan to an airport that does not have a STAR and your aircraft is not equipped with GPS? I have reviewed the AIM section 5, Instrument Procedures Handbook, and Googled it and can't find a clear answer. I know in training I flew several cross countries to airports without STAR procedures and we utilized the MSA to get from a waypoint on a Victor airway to the initial approach fix. But I know I cant just fly from a waypoint to a fix without course guidance even if I have a safe altitude. I cant remember how we filed these flight plans or how we flew them.

    Specifically, I have made a flight plan from KDAB to KHSV. I am looking to transition from the FEWER intersection on V325 to the ENIKY IAF for the ILS to RWY 36R at KHSV. The RQZ VOR used for the 25 NM NMSA on the 36R approach plate will not cover my intended route. Can I use the MSA for an approach into KCMD for my approach in KHSV? The KCMD approach MSA will cover my route of intended flight from FEWER to ENIKY? How do I maintain course guide for the transition from FEWER to ENIKY?

    If someone has a written reference that they can refer me to, that would be great. I should certainly know the answer to this question, but for some reason I cannot find an answer.
     
  2. Walboy

    Walboy Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The approach plate says radar required, so ATC will provide vectors and obstacle clearance (the way I read it).
     
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  3. BrianK

    BrianK Filing Flight Plan

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    Thank you, so if I file, would I file the flight plan as...V325-FEWER-ENIKY?
     
  4. Walboy

    Walboy Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I don't see anything wrong with filing that. The AIM says to include an IAF but a lot of folks ignore that. If you lose comms though, how would you get to ENIKY? More than likely you're just going to intercept the localizer. You didn't say if you're equipped with DME, just no GPS.

    You would probably be OK leaving off ENIKY if you have no way of navigating to it without Radar Vectors.

    I'm not familiar with the area, so can't speak to what's routinely assigned. I also checked previous routing on SkyVector and didn't see anything.
     
  5. dmspilot

    dmspilot Final Approach

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    First you don't have GPS so don't file something you can't fly. Second you don't know which approach will be in use when you get there. I would file V321 RQZ KHSV. The controller will vector you when you get close. You aren't doing the 36R ILS without vectors anyway since as mentioned above, it is required. Despite what the AIM says, I don't believe my company ever files to an IAF. I go to KHSV quite a lot and we always file to RQZ direct KHSV.
     
  6. John Collins

    John Collins En-Route

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    I would file KDAB GUANO V267 CRG V243 HEFIN V321 RQZ KHSV. From RSV there is a feeder route to the ILS or LOC RWY 18R procedure. The entire route can be accomplished using VOR. Most conventional approaches will have at least one feeder route from an airway if an IAF is not part of an airway or radar is used to get from the airway to the approach.

    An important point regarding the use of MSA, they are not operationally usable except in the case of an emergency, so no you may not descend to the MSA without an ATC clearance and a clearance for an approach does not include permission to descend to the MSA.
     
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  7. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If I lose coms it's an emergency. I'll get there with my iPad if necessary although I'll probably gram the nearest approach I can.
     
  8. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    How would you navigate from DAB to GUANO without a GPS?
     
  9. Walboy

    Walboy Pre-takeoff checklist

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    One uses all tools available in an emergency.

    I answered the question with regard to ILS RWY 36R, which is what the OP seemed to be asking. I think he wanted to know about the "gap" in course guidance from the enroute structure to the IAF. I'm assuming based on his response he overlooked radar required.

    OP, there is a new required equipment box on govt plates that has been adapted since you last flew under IFR.
     
  10. John Collins

    John Collins En-Route

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    I wouldn't actually navigate to GUANO, but rather fly a heading to intercept V267 or just get vectors. I picked GUANO to define V267, BARBS or ROYES might have been a better choice.
     
  11. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Another possibility would be KDAB OMN V51 CRG etc.
     
  12. John Collins

    John Collins En-Route

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    Sure, might have been even better.
     
  13. PastZTL

    PastZTL Pre-takeoff checklist

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    We worked arrivals to HSV from the south. If HSV was on a north operation we would clear the aircraft direct DCU HSV and HSV Apch would vector the aircraft to final. A south operation was cleared via RQZ HSV. Again, HSV Apch would vector the aircraft to final. ATC will take care of all your altitude assignments.
     
  14. sarangan

    sarangan Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    I am not sure why you want to include an approach in your IFR flight plan. You fly whichever approach is in use at your time of arrival. I would simply put FEWER as the last fix and then the destination. If you lose comms and you are in IMC, then it is an emergency situation. In such a case, my preference would be to stay on V325 until you intercept the localizer. Call them on your cell phone, or use your tablet GPS to get to the IAF.
     
  15. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    You really need to get up to speed with RNAV.
     
  16. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'd probably give myself a vector at FEWER towards ENIKY. You'd probably get the Localizer well enough continuing straight ahead after FEWER, where V325 ends, but. The Localizer will have been Flight Checked out to a distance beyond ENIKY equivalent to 1 minute at 230 knots. That's probably a little short of where the intercept would be staying straight ahead after FEWER.

    EDIT: More I look at it, the LOC Needle may already be off the peg at FEWER.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2022