How to solve the US pilot shortage

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by FPK1, May 30, 2022.

  1. FPK1

    FPK1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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  2. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    or perhaps change the forced retirement age...

    ???
     
  3. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    They tried that already. All it did was kick the can down the road. A temporary fix at best.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2022
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  4. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Perhaps the upcoming recession will even things out.
     
  5. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 En-Route PoA Supporter

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  6. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Hey look, another one of these threads!
     
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  7. Jackk

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    Lol!

    There is no “pilot shortage” it’s a pay shortage.

    Why would someone work for a regional, live in a 3 star motel, and make far less than a 135 who is home more and has a better quality of life?

    The airlines and their unions are all about pushing this BS “pilot shortage”

    Its the same pay to play, same reason for the 65yr old mandatory firing, at the time they finally make the advertised big money, despite being able to hold a 1st class medial, same with needing 1,000hrs 121 time to make capt, despite the plane not knowing what FAR it’s operating under, and science not caring, toss a engine on takeoff, it’s the same 91/135/121


    The reason the 1500 is under the paid for media eye, if you’re only paying 50k a year, who is more willing to live in the back of their car to fly a regional, a 500hr wonder, or a experienced professional ATP?
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2022
  8. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Pattern Altitude

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    Pilot shortage??? Make taller pilots..


    I know, coat, hat, and third door on the left .. right?
     
  9. edessa

    edessa Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I think insurance companies are somewhat to blame for this also.
     
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  10. Doug Reid

    Doug Reid Cleared for Takeoff

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    Keep increasing the price of fuel....no one will be able to afford travel.
     
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  11. Jackk

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    That’s a feature not a flaw
     
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  12. RingLaserGyroSandwich

    RingLaserGyroSandwich Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    The article does a fairly good job of pointing out that airline accidents or near misses are less likely to be caused by insufficient hours under the belts of the crew, and more likely insufficient quality of the crew's current training/proficiency. The 1500 hour rule doesn't do much to address that.

    Extending the retirement age is fine with me so long as we have two+ crew members, but it may not actually help with the current perceived shortages/cancellations/etc.
     
  13. Jackk

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    I disagree

    I think what makes the US the best is how pilots traditionally came up from smaller planes to bigger aircraft, something not allowed under European and other regimes, the experience very much matters, just like for a good doctor or craftsman or anyone else.
     
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  14. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    It's really not the 1500 hours, it's the likelihood that they will have survived situations during those 1500 hours that will make them better prepared for emergencies in the cockpit when a ton of people's lives are on the line behind them.
     
  15. Racerx

    Racerx Pattern Altitude

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    I'd like to see them remove the color blind thing being a first class medical disqualifier. Both my dad and my sister are color blind.
     
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  16. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Also raise the price of tickets by at least 1000%.... that will also allow more leg room between seats...
     
  17. Katamarino

    Katamarino Pattern Altitude

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    As said above, it's a pay shortage.

    I could go and work for an airline tomorrow if the pay made sense.
     
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  18. Dave Theisen

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    While that was true a few years ago, that’s certainly not the case today. The regionals are offering good pay and bonuses, so those of us trying to hire pilots for Part 91 and 135 gigs are having a hard time. Eliminating the 1500 hour rule will put the nail in the coffin for us.
     
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  19. RingLaserGyroSandwich

    RingLaserGyroSandwich Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    You said you disagree with me and then made a point that doesn't seem to contradict what I said.
     
  20. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Unless extending the retirement age has no effect on current pilots retiring at 65 with full retirement benefits, there will be a lot of angry senior pilots who wanted to retire at 65. I think you'll find the number that want to work past 65 after making good money for a couple decades isn't that high. That would also reduce the number of retired airline pilots who switch to "retirement careers" as CFIs, which isn't a good thing.
     
  21. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yep, 25 years ago when I was able to move to a regional the starting pay was 900/mth. A senior captain for a regional made around 3700/mth. Heck I made more than that selling race fuel to race teams during the recession.
     
  22. Jackk

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    What’s the average regional FO make first year on guarantee?
     
  23. Dave Theisen

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    Enough that I’ve lost four guys as soon as they hit 1500.
     
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  24. Jackk

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    Do you need me to fully articulate how more experience is more better? Really?
     
  25. TommyG

    TommyG Pattern Altitude

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    Say they reduce the 1500 hour rule, there is a good chance pay and all the current bonuses will go away. New pilots are already crying that $70k a year isn’t good enough. Back in the late 90s, starting pay was around $17k a year. The other game was pay for training. You pay the airline $10k-$15k for the training after you are hired. But if you fail the training, you are out of a job and out of the money you paid for training.

    Also back the to get with the airline, you would not even be looked at unless you had 250 or 500 multi, I forget which it was.
     
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  26. jordane93

    jordane93 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Probably around 60K. Plus whatever bonuses they’re getting.
     
  27. Jackk

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    So a hair UNDER HALF what a 1500hrs 135 FO would make?

    Gee, why wouldn’t people be kicking down the regional doors!

    Must be a pilot shortage! Issues visas to everyone stat!
     
  28. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Because there will be more eligible pilots, but you won’t hire them? If they expanded the hours there will be more pilots. Yes, some of your top hour pilots will jump, but the airlines aren’t hurting for candidates.

    What this will do for 135 is lower the average hours of pilots. There will be lower hour pilots to fill in where higher hour ones leave.
     
  29. jordane93

    jordane93 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Which companies are paying 1500 hour FOs 120K? I’m not familiar with 135 pay and genuinely curious. I would have thought 60K for a 1500 FO at a 135 is on par. The earning potential and retirement at 121 is usually way better than 135. At every regional, you’re upgrading as soon as you have 1000 hours SIC 121 and you’re easily making over 100K. You’re not making 60K forever.
     
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  30. Tarheelpilot

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    It won’t make a difference. The airlines are swimming in new hire first officers. The problem is a shortage in captains and check airmen, especially at the regionals. The proposed relaxation of minimum qualification and retirement age won’t do squat. The airlines are reaping what they have been sowing for the last 20 years.
     
  31. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    It still is…
     
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  32. Jackk

    Jackk Ejection Handle Pulled

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    No

    90k plus is probably 75% of 135 FOs

    And more home every nights, better match on a 401k, better health benefits.

    To break into the 121 world it’s a downgrade for anyone with 1500hrs or better.

    Go check out the surveys in pro jet pilot mag
     
  33. RingLaserGyroSandwich

    RingLaserGyroSandwich Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    No, because I never argued the opposite.
     
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  34. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    For how long? I mean seriously how long will it stay that way? Things are changing fast and while some non 121 jobs may pay better than first year pay at an airline the life long earning at a 121 are still far better than any charter job. What 135 job does all the things you say? Home every night, better than 16% direct contribution to a 401k, better health insurance? Sounds like you are selling snake oil.

    edit: I am speaking from personal experience. Also I do read those pay surveys. Airlines are hands down the best paying jobs in the industry. It’s definitely possible to have a great career doing something else but it will not pay as well.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2022
  35. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN En-Route PoA Supporter

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    There is no 1,500 hour rule. It is an ATP rule.

    You can earn an ATP with 750, 1,000, 1,250, or 1,500 hours TT, depends on how you were trained.

    The ATP also requires a long list of other experience requirements along with additional training and knowledge requirements.
     
  36. Dave Theisen

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    You just don’t get it. If the airlines can hire lower time pilots, that means LESS pilots to fly GA, not more. Sure, I can hire a dozen 300 hour copilots tomorrow, but the still have to fly with someone. At minimum, Part 135 requires 1200 hours to be PIC.
     
  37. Jackk

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    You’re a lower paying stepping stone 135?
     
  38. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    we are what the market and ownership has forced us to be. And Jackk is only half your name.
     
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  39. Jackk

    Jackk Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Sorry to hear that, lots of opportunities right now if you want to get on with a better operator.

    Yes, Jack is only half of my name
     
  40. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I’m just fine, thanks. The point is, in this climate, some segments of the industry are going to wither and die.