How to get into warbirds?

pilot_joe

Filing Flight Plan
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pilot_joe
I love flying 172s as much as the next guy, but I gotta admit my heart is in warbirds.

I've heard of a few that do the whole volunteer flying warbirds on their time off from the airlines. But would there be any way of doing that full time? Ideally that would be my ultimate long-term goal.

I know that as a 1000ish hour, early 20s CFI with no ATP, my chances are pretty slim at the moment. But I don't mind waiting. The question is, how can I start investing my time so one day I can reach my goal?
 
You are asking if it's possible to fly warbirds as a full-time paying job?
 
Join the CAF and start volunteering. A little elbow grease can get you a long way. I've had them beg me to fly an AT-6. Not full-time, but it would be a good way to build the experience needed to get better gigs.
 
The easiest way to get into them (aside from rolling back the canopy) is to make a crap-load of expendable income so that you can afford to own one. :) As far as being paid to fly them, I don't know that I've heard of that, short of some way of getting a job with CAF or a warbird restoration company. I'm sure if you want to get some corporate sponsors and do air racing, you might have a shot.
 
Pull the canopy back?

Well hell, guys. Keep going, I'm taking notes!

Haven't even thought about the CAF, I guess I'll check them out.
 
Yeah, CAF or one of the specialized flight museums are probably your only route. They do need pilots, but they look for guys with monstrous tailwheel time, preferably in PT-17s and AT-6s. Training in those is available if you have the requisite amount of cash. So, join an organization, put in a LOT of time working your way up from the bottom, accrue wads of tailwheel time, and then your goal may be in reach (but this will never be a full-time flying gig - barely even part time and you won't get paid.)
 
Go out and take a few rides in an AT6, see how you like it,then volunteer with an organization that flys warbirds,good luck on your quest.
 
I love flying 172s as much as the next guy, but I gotta admit my heart is in warbirds.

I've heard of a few that do the whole volunteer flying warbirds on their time off from the airlines. But would there be any way of doing that full time? Ideally that would be my ultimate long-term goal.

I know that as a 1000ish hour, early 20s CFI with no ATP, my chances are pretty slim at the moment. But I don't mind waiting. The question is, how can I start investing my time so one day I can reach my goal?
There are a few ways to get into warbirds. It helps to have some money.

The easiest and arguably best is to buy your own and then you don't have to deal with the politics, but most folks don't have those kind of resources.

So, you either need to know someone and be invited into the inner circle, or join the CAF. The CAF is probably the easiest and a potentially good network tool, but beware: like a lot of big organizations, there are some truly great units that are committed to sharing history with the public and there are some units that seem hell bent on perpetuating the CAF's negative reputation from a couple decades ago. Hopefully you are near a good unit.

Outside of the CAF, I'd suggest finding someone near you who does warbird flight instruction (something like a T-6) and get a couple hours of dual and start a relationship/network. In time, they may be able to open a door or two for you.

If you are serious about warbirds and want to someday fly the more exotic stuff (P-51, Wildcat, Corsair, Avenger...etc) then you will need lots and lots of T-6 time (100 hrs seems to be the magic number). Find someone to partner with and buy a T-6 (you can get an airworthy one for time building in the $100-125k range), fly it to shows, network and as long as you aren't a jackass, the flying museums will open their doors to you in time.

That said, I don't know too many people who fly warbirds full time. Most have side jobs and fly when there is a show or rides to be flown. The handful that do it full time are guys that have a ton of experience and offer flight instruction in the warbird(s). And I suspect that even those guys have other business ventures/investments that provide additional income.
 
Bird Dogs are pretty darned expensive these days.

Buy a 172 and call it a T-41.
 
Getting rides in in them is easy. Spent $2,200 couple years ago for a Mustang ride. Getting in good enough with CAF, Collings and other organizations to fly their aircraft is a whole different matter. I'd say years of volunteering and working your way up the ladder.

I went up in a Cobra a while back with the Army Aviation Heritage group. I was thinking maybe I could break into that part-time. They've got a bunch of pilots, all connected and most flying before I was born. Not getting in anytime soon.

Speaking of warbirds, I heard CAF's "Red Nose" doing the overhead today over Falcon Field CTAF. That would be the job.
 
If you don't mind flying a Commie bird, a Nanchang CJ-6 or a Yak 52 are excellent choices for warbird fun. As with all radials, they are in constant need of maintenance and you need a mechanic with Russian engine experience, but all in all I'd pick a CJ-6 as your best bang for the buck warbird. Very fun to fly. Just don't get confused by the attitude indicator - the ground is blue and the sky is brown.
 
I love flying 172s as much as the next guy, but I gotta admit my heart is in warbirds.

I've heard of a few that do the whole volunteer flying warbirds on their time off from the airlines. But would there be any way of doing that full time? Ideally that would be my ultimate long-term goal.

I know that as a 1000ish hour, early 20s CFI with no ATP, my chances are pretty slim at the moment. But I don't mind waiting. The question is, how can I start investing my time so one day I can reach my goal?

Don't want to be harsh, but yeah...we all feel that way.

Seriously. It's not free. Some of the big names got in during the 50s and 60s when these were much cheaper, but even Steve Hinton Sr got in by washing hangar floors and cleaning airplanes. Get your ratings, get a tailwheel endorsement, get experience in unique airplanes, try to find a way to fly a Stearman. A lot. Then fly a T-6. A lot. All of this you'll have to pay for yourself. Volunteer with CAF. Even then you'll pay to fly the airplanes.

Be willing to fly the less glamorous types...the BT-13s and PT-17s and O-1s of the world...before someone lets you roar off into the wild blue yonder in one of only ~150 flying Mustangs on the planet. :)

Listen to this podcast episode. I'm in your shoes (minus the 1000hrs - I'm at 160 :( ) and found this very helpful and encouraging. The warbird world can feel isolated, rarified, and a "good 'ol boy's" club and it is to some extent. But that's only because it's highly desirable (see my original point) and each one of them worked their butts off, sacrificed a TON of time, money, and family life to be where they are. It's hard, it's long, and not everyone gets the chance, but if you're willing to sacrifice a lot then you might make it.

http://www.warbirdradio.com/2016/03...with-vlado-lenoch-and-scott-yoak-episode-593/

Bottom line: You'll have to work at it over years. Get time in as many different types as possible. Get a good job that enables you to fly a lot. Get experience, work relationships, and be willing to do the boring, hard work nobody wants to do.

Best of luck!
 
Yeah, CAF or one of the specialized flight museums are probably your only route. They do need pilots, but they look for guys with monstrous tailwheel time, preferably in PT-17s and AT-6s. Training in those is available if you have the requisite amount of cash. So, join an organization, put in a LOT of time working your way up from the bottom, accrue wads of tailwheel time, and then your goal may be in reach (but this will never be a full-time flying gig - barely even part time and you won't get paid.)

Exactly. Bring money, lots and lots of money. You'll need it all before you ever get close. I dream about flying warbirds, too, but that's all it is, a dream. The closest I get is working the flightline at the local airshow.
 
Local guy had the same bug. And he's very large. Got to know folks on the Nanchang forums and two guys flew down to give him and his wife rides. They both landed and insisted on buying one. Not much more than a 172 in purchase price, he fits and they love it.
 
Most of the aircraft you'll want to fly are tailwheel aircraft - start now on a Cub, Champ, Taylorcraft, etc. and get familiar with the planes the guys that flew them in WWII would have flown before they jumped into a P-51, Corsair, or Hellcat.

Second, start with the less glamorous warbirds - Stearman, Taylorcraft L-2, Piper L-4, Stinson L-5, BT-13/15, and work your way up. Most of the bigger birds are going to be hard to get into flying if they are insured if you don't have previous time and experience.
 
You can fly anything you want. All it takes is all the money in the world plus 2 dollars.
For a warbird, all the money in the world plus 7 dollars and a staff of at least 5 full-time people to keep it in flying condition.
I'm assuming you want to fly something macho like a P-51, or a B-17, not wimpy like an L-4.
Oh, and plan to go to "Bomber School" or "Fighter School" for a few weeks every year.
If you can afford it, there is nothing on earth like it.
 
I used to rent ex Navy T-34Bs. When I got checked out in them in 1990, it cost me $45/hr wet. The last time I rented one in 1998 it was $90/hr wet. Shortly after that, a wing spar AD grounded many of them, and the ones that are still flying are costly little buggers to maintain. The Navy flying club I rented them from was disbanded a couple of years ago, and I don't know of anywhere you can rent a T-34 without have a paid chaperone in the back seat.
 
Bird Dogs are pretty darned expensive these days.

Buy a 172 and call it a T-41.
Cheaper yet, buy a C-150L or M and call it a T-51A.

For a decent traveling machine, I almost pulled the trigger on a Navion painted up like an Army L-17. It might have even been an L-17 originally.
 
Depends the kind of "warbird cla$$" we're talking about. I'd go with the advice of make money and buy yourself the warbird. The community appears cliquish and standoffish.

My squadron buddy bought himself a Chipmunk and a full up flying costume to go with it. Makes some appearances in the warbird section at airshows and fly-ins. Makes no money at it but it gets him good parking at the shows.

Frankly, if you're longing for radial engine feel, Yak-50/52s are attainable privately, otherwise aerobatics can be had for a hell of a lot less money via traditional non-vintage aircraft (Pitts, RV, and similar one-off experimentals).
 
you have to replace a lot of aluminum with plexiglass to make that one believable!

I was stationed at an Air Force pilot training base and the Air Force used them to screen students before they went to the T37. They were a C172 w/ a bit more hp I think, but it wasn't much more. We had them in a couple of Aero Clubs I was in.
 
USAF calls the 172 a T-41 ,Mescalaro....sounds bad-az, no?
Really wasn't a 172, it's a 175 with several engine options such as the G0-300-D & IO-360 Plus the 0-470. highly prized collector's item.

yeah it looks like a 172. :)
 
Just read a quick fact sheet and it says they were off the shelf C172Fs when the Air Force ordered 237 of them in 1964. T41A had the standard 0-300, T41B (Army) & T41C had the 0-360, while the T-41D (sold to foreign Air Forces) had the 0-360. Didn't see any mention of the 0-470 but man that would be sweet. It did mention the B, C, & D held the C175 type certificate.
 
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Either be born in the "right" family, or know the right people. You can volunteer and work your ass off and maybe get a break or two, but that probably won't get you into anything like a Mustang as PIC. You can buy an L2 Taylorcraft or something that's affordable, but that probably won't get you into the league with the big shots, which is a whole nother group.
 
If your goal is to fly a fighter then you must start by getting a lot of tailwheel time. If you can start flying something like a Stearman or N3N for a couple hundred hours then get into a T-6 for another couple hundred. During that time do lots of formation and aerobatics and you'll have a good base to work with. During that time do lots of wrenching on warbird types and get good at it. Now find someone with a warbird collection and volunteer and maybe you will have a small (less than 1%) chance of getting to fly some of the big iron. If you can put up with the political stuff of the CAF and have the bucks for a sponsorship you would have a slightly better chance. It is a tough club to get into and with the value of warbirds going into the stratosphere you have to have the experience before getting a chance at flying one. I have flown N3Ns for over 30 years, owned a SNJ for 8 years, flown several warbird types and have 3 hrs duel in a Mustang and there ain't nobody beating my door down to fly their fighter. Don
 
I have flown N3Ns for over 30 years, owned a SNJ for 8 years, flown several warbird types and have 3 hrs duel in a Mustang and there ain't nobody beating my door down to fly their fighter. Don
Who'd you pi$$ off Don?

I say that half joking/half serious. As has been mentioned, the community is very cliquish. It takes a combination of experience and who you know. That said, with your experience, you should be able to network your way in. 100 hrs of T-6 seems to be the magic number for insurance. It is getting harder and harder for some of the flying museums to find guys who have that much T-6 time. Still, not all museums are the same. Outfits like the Military Aviation Museum here seem to be more open to taking on pilots who have the experience and been vetted. On the other end of the spectrum is Fantasy of Flight, where unless you are Kermit Weeks, you probably aren't going to get to fly. YMMV.
 
Commemorative Air Force (used to be Confederate Air Force). They are mostly ex service guys. Ask around and find one that has an airplane and go look at it. If you can make friends with them, they will probably give you a ride. Flying it might be possible as a copilot too. They all work on it and need your money too. If you give them money for their plane fund, that will help.
 
I have been fortunate over the years to fly several types and if I was down in Calif I would probably be able to fly something cool.The big thing is I can't afford the fuel costs of some of the bigger iron and I want to pay at least the fuel if I get to fly it. We had a TBM Avenger, SNJ and N3N in the 80s. I only flew the TBM once because at 65gph I could fly my SNJ for over two hours and it was more fun to fly. A friend let me fly his T-28A anytime and I have access to a T-6 now. I did get to fly the Mustang and also a TP-40N and a TMk.IX Spitfire. Don
 
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