How safe/unsafe is glider flying?

mumblecanfly said:
Another stupid question: Can an airplane pilot's logbook be used for glider flying?
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Like how? For recreational reading while waiting for the tow plane? A booster seat if you can’t see over the dash? A fuel source if you land out and need to roast marshmallows?

Be specific!
 
I know. Can’t a fellow have a little fun on a Sunday evening?

They have sailplane logbooks. But you can log your time on paper napkins if you want. Or coconut shells. Nobody cares unless you plan on flying as a pilot for hire.
 
ebykowsky said:
No go around, no throttle, and only mother nature for lift... your hobby is what I would consider an emergency... so how safe is it really? How often can you not make it to the runway, and of those times how often does the plane end up damaged or the pilot end up hurt/dead?
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Very safe
 
ebykowsky said:
No go around, no throttle, and only mother nature for lift... your hobby is what I would consider an emergency... so how safe is it really? How often can you not make it to the runway, and of those times how often does the plane end up damaged or the pilot end up hurt/dead?
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Actually it depends largely on whether you are flying out of an airport surrounded by rough mountainous terrain, or wheatfields!
 
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ebykowsky said:
No go around, no throttle, and only mother nature for lift... your hobby is what I would consider an emergency... so how safe is it really? How often can you not make it to the runway, and of those times how often does the plane end up damaged or the pilot end up hurt/dead?
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Loops are a trip
 
That was probably a bit dangerous!


And this is my fifth post.
 
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mumblecanfly said:
Is this the same or a different one?

https://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/new...re-while-landing-at-parham-airfield-1-8639749

http://sustainableskies.org/two-battery-fires-self-launching-sailplanes/

"According to a report investigators, published last week, the fire was caused by a Front Electrical Sustainer (FES) lithium polymer battery - used to sustain propulsion while in the sky."

That's a motor glider?
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No, it is a glider with a sustainer. Typically used for climbing out when you are too low to thermal out and can get you to altitude to hopefully make it back to your home drone or at least an airport where you can get an aerotow out of. Most of the latest FES gliders can get you about 60nm range.

A true motor glider can self launch, and fly for as far as you have gas.


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Re logbook: it's for logging my lessons times, yes (just took 1 short lesson). The SSA site has it in its store but the link doesn't work. Amazon has standard pilot's logbook, so I was wondering if I could just use that.
 
mumblecanfly said:
Re logbook: it's for logging my lessons times, yes (just took 1 short lesson). The SSA site has it in its store but the link doesn't work. Amazon has standard pilot's logbook, so I was wondering if I could just use that.
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You really want to make sure that you log the launch type (aerotow, winch, self) as well as the tow height and maximum altitude.


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mumblecanfly said:
Another stupid question: Can an airplane pilot's logbook be used for glider flying?
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Sure. The Jeep logbook has some blank columns. Mark one glider, the next glider-pic, and the third for the type of launch. It's all 'flight experience'.
 
i used one of the SSA logbooks when i started my training and then switched to logging all my flight time in the same book. I note the launch method, release height, etc in the comments.
 
Thanks for the tips about logbook. My instructor said he'll fill in the log time for me once I buy a logbook. I've never seen a logbook before. I imagine, naturally, every entry needs some kind of authentication? How is that done? A stamp or signature or...?
 
mumblecanfly said:
Thanks for the tips about logbook. My instructor said he'll fill in the log time for me once I buy a logbook. I've never seen a logbook before. I imagine, naturally, every entry needs some kind of authentication? How is that done? A stamp or signature or...?
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Not in the US. There are a few required entries during training. The sign-off for solo, the sign-off to take your practical exam etc. The 'student' type logbooks for powered flights have pre-printed entries that the CFI can complete with the required portions. Other CFIs have a cheat-sheet and scribble the entry into the front of the logbook.
In the US, the regular entries for your flights don't have to be authenticated by. That's different from other countries where you have to get a stamp if you land away from your instructor.

Keeping your logbook is your responsibility. It may have happened before that pilots have recorded flights that didn't actually happen or recorded flight times that can't be substantiated. This is all fun and games until someone gets hurt and the FAA and/or the insurance company go looking. There was a recent case where someone expanded some twin flights from 1.8hrs to '6.8hrs' to get his 25hrs ME experience required by the insurance. Wasn't the cause of his crash, but that kind of dishonesty has the potential to catch up with you eventually.
 
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Interesting to know, thanks weilke. Where insurance is mentioned in these posts, are they life insurance, not the general health insurance? It never occurred to me taking up this hobby may affect my health insurance (maybe not, since my group insurance never asked me questions).
 
mumblecanfly said:
Interesting to know, thanks weilke. Where insurance is mentioned in these posts, are they life insurance, not the general health insurance? It never occurred to me taking up this hobby may affect my health insurance (maybe not, since my group insurance never asked me questions).
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The insurance for the airplane.
 
mumblecanfly said:
Interesting to know, thanks weilke. Where insurance is mentioned in these posts, are they life insurance, not the general health insurance? It never occurred to me taking up this hobby may affect my health insurance (maybe not, since my group insurance never asked me questions).
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Health insurance is usually not a problem. However, like in any accident, the health insurer may try to get their money back if another party is found at fault (subrogation).

Others have mentioned earlier that some life and disability insurance policies exclude glider flying. Thats for the most part probably ignorance by the companies who confuse glider flying with hang-gliders. If life insurers were concerned with accidental death risks they also need to stop covering the use of bathtubs and the climbing of stairs by the elderly.

The plane itself typically carries insurance. That is for the 'hull' against accidental damage and for third party liability. Some insurers also have a small 'medical payment' clause which allows the insurer to pay 'go away money' for minor claims without admitting fault for the accident.
 
tonycondon said:
There would be massive logistical problems not to mention dealing with the harsh environment. But it could be pretty awesome. Similarly I've always wondered about the soaring potential in Alaska, presumably some routes could be worked out that would allow for incredible distance and in the summer you could have a LOT of daylight to work on things like world distance records...
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upload_2018-10-2_7-46-45.jpeg

ACSL in Antarctica. This was larger than anything I can remember seeing over the Front Range near Denver.
 
regarding the logbook question: I have all my flights in one logbook. I simply used one of the blank spots in the book for glider and another for tailwheel.

As for life insurance, you can use companies like www.piclifeDOTcom or similar ones with AOPA. Unless you are younger than 40, beware of group term life plans; their rates skyrocket after about 45.
 
mumblecanfly said:
Another stupid question: Can an airplane pilot's logbook be used for glider flying?
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Yea, that’s a stupid question.
Yes it can. A log book is a log book.
There are some items that glider pilots keep track that airplane pilots don’t, but columns in logbooks can be adapted to what you want to track.
 
Everskyward said:
View attachment 67731

ACSL in Antarctica. This was larger than anything I can remember seeing over the Front Range near Denver.
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Travel around Argentina’s Patogonia region where standing waves seem to end up in the background of most pics. Hard to keep the eyes on the trout sometimes
1cba11cb8a2feb85d6c7cc82096a2295.jpg



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My pilot logbook has four type columns. Two are pre-identified as ASEL and AMEL, and I’m using them for those. The other two can be used for whatever you want. I am using one for ASES and have reserved the other for AMES. When I recently did my glider add on, I bought a glider specific book. Makes sense for me. Might not for others.
 
weilke said:
Health insurance is usually not a problem. However, like in any accident, the health insurer may try to get their money back if another party is found at fault (subrogation).

Others have mentioned earlier that some life and disability insurance policies exclude glider flying. Thats for the most part probably ignorance by the companies who confuse glider flying with hang-gliders. If life insurers were concerned with accidental death risks they also need to stop covering the use of bathtubs and the climbing of stairs by the elderly.

The plane itself typically carries insurance. That is for the 'hull' against accidental damage and for third party liability. Some insurers also have a small 'medical payment' clause which allows the insurer to pay 'go away money' for minor claims without admitting fault for the accident.
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When I last bought life insurance, they asked about any type of aviation activity as a pilot or crew member. Specifically mentioned were airplanes, gliders, hang gliders, paragliders, ultralights,and hot air balloons. They also asked about skydiving. If you flew, they wanted to know about it. Flying a hang glider or paraglider is not significantly more dangerous than is flying in a light GA plane.

One thing that surprised me is that they didn't ask about motorcycles.
 
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Nsconductor said:
https://www.facebook.com/1400717503307030/posts/1990689470976494/


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Good one!

In the states, the big problem is that it smacks of socialism with all the people and cooperation required to fly at a reasonable cost. Flying cross country here generally requires private ownership or at least a private partnership and then it does become $$$ at least initially. Flying locally will bore most people before too long.

Shagging ropes on a Saturday afternoon sure beats jogging around the block.


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I got the "what happens if the wind stops" (from the linked facebook video) all the time when I mentioned I flew hang gliders. It was always fun when they asked how long I could stay up and the answer was 4 - 5 hours on a good day. The next words were always, "I thought you said you didn't have a motor".

The best question I got was from a very heavily tatted motorcycle guy when i was setting up to launch; "have you ever died doing this?". As an aside, it was always the motorcycle riders who said I was crazy and they would never do anything like this. Nothing against motorcycles, just interesting to me how different people have different perspectives on what is dangerous.
 
Bill Watson said:
Good one!

In the states, the big problem is that it smacks of socialism with all the people and cooperation required to fly at a reasonable cost. Flying cross country here generally requires private ownership or at least a private partnership and then it does become $$$ at least initially. Flying locally will bore most people before too long.

Shagging ropes on a Saturday afternoon sure beats jogging around the block.


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A my club, the Soaring Club of Houston ( SCOH.org ) we have a very active cross country program. We encourage all of our members to achieve at least the FAI Silver badge. In order to support that goal, Club ships in addition to the training ships include an ASK 21, PW5, AC4 Russia, L33, and a Standard Jantar. Plenty of ships to reach silver.

I agree to be hard core competitive you really need a private ship or a partnership in one. But, a really nice standard Cirrus can be had for under $18k. Racing is handicapped so the lower priced older gliders can and do compete with the very modern ships.


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Nsconductor said:
A my club, the Soaring Club of Houston ( SCOH.org ) we have a very active cross country program. We encourage all of our members to achieve at least the FAI Silver badge. In order to support that goal, Club ships in addition to the training ships include an ASK 21, PW5, AC4 Russia, L33, and a Standard Jantar. Plenty of ships to reach silver.

I agree to be hard core competitive you really need a private ship or a partnership in one. But, a really nice standard Cirrus can be had for under $18k. Racing is handicapped so the lower priced older gliders can and do compete with the very modern ships.


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That’s Great!

I too learned to fly gliders in a club but they definitely did not do any CC. None of the instructors had any experience and it changes the insurance costs.

The nice part is that gliders hold their value well. Buying a 15-20k glider is all one needs to really enjoy any and all aspects of the sport. Five to ten years later you can sell it for what you paid (no TBO!) and move up or on.

But glider clubs, especially clubs that support CC flying are few and far between in the US. It was always frustrating for me talking up gliding to people but having to cave on the expense part. It’s expensive to rent, clubs are relatively rare and CC generally requires private ownership. Then it takes a club or commercial op to get towed.


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Considering the number of drivers who text while driving, glider flying is definitely safer than cycling, driving or motorcycling. And it is so much more enjoyable.
 
CC= Cross Country - going beyond easy gliding distance of your home field.
 
Hang 4 said:
CC= Cross Country - going beyond easy gliding distance of your home field.
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Yes, that.
In gliders it can take several forms:
- Flying as far as you can in one direction for maximum distance, aka a vulgar downwind dash.
- Flying to one or more predetermined points and returning to your start point. We used to take pictures of the turn points. Now a sealed GPS logger is used.
- Flying to one or more points from a list in an attempt to maximize distance, and therefore speed.

Typical distance may be anywhere from 30 - 100 - 300 - 500 miles depending on weather, equipment and skill. Challenging and fun!


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Where I go is not a club but commercial airport, more expensive, and there is hardly any choice of instructors. But maybe more flexible in scheduling. Any opinions/experience to share re commercial vs. clubs?
 
mumblecanfly said:
Where I go is not a club but commercial airport, more expensive, and there is hardly any choice of instructors. But maybe more flexible in scheduling. Any opinions/experience to share re commercial vs. clubs?
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My experience is dated but probably still valid in general.

Commercial means more expense, greater flexibility, and no need for sweat equity.

Club means cheaper, rules that may or may not work in your favor, a requirement for some personal commitment of time and energy, and the opportunity for fellowship and camaraderie that can be more difficult to experience commercially.

The social aspects of soaring can be the most rewarding aspect of the sport; Esprit de Corps and all that.

Bottom line is that all aspects are entirely site specific. There are commercial operations that feel like a club and vice-a-versa. And there are operations that are a mix of both. You just have dive in, sample it, and see if it fits your eye.


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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I recall the Cherokee Kid (known by a different name here) doing some reasonable cross country flights in a pretty low performance glider...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_Cherokee_II
http://cherokeesailplanes.blogspot.com/
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My longest flight in the Cherokee II is currently 242 miles. It was a pretty good day, Guy in a Nimbus III that day went 552 miles!

I also did a 300km triangle in the Cherokee II once, on a VERY good soaring day. Probably the best day I've ever flown that glider.

The last few years I've been flying my Standard Cirrus too much and the Cherokee not enough. Oh well.
 
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