How much to deduct from offer for past damage history?

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by Blueangel, Dec 13, 2016.

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  1. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

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    So I found a past gear up accident on a Debonair that I am looking at and wanted to find out how much to deduct from the offer on it?
     
  2. mtuomi

    mtuomi En-Route

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    0 to full asking. Need more details. How old, how/where/when repaired etc.
     
  3. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    1 Was it repaired properly to 100% ?

    2 Is the seller experienced in aviation?

    If the answer to the above
    1 yes and 2 yes, zero, unless he's pressed for cash.


    They all have had some some damage, just a matter as to if its documented or not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
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  4. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

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    I am waiting to see the 337 forms from the seller. The log books were not very detailed on the repair so that concerns me. Will have to review 337 forms and engine shop that did work. Then can assess. I've heard between 10-30% based on repair work done and time since accident and repair. Yes, most older planes had gear ups like Mooney and Bonanzas so not surprised. As long as work was done correct by reputable shop I am not worried.
     
  5. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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  6. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    There is no standard percentage to deduct for anything. Figure out what the airplane is worth to you, in the condition it is in. Make an offer for that amount.

    Also, don't be surprised if there is less documentation on repairs performed than you might think there should be. Things do not need to be documented in the way that most owners and/or prospective owners perceive they should be. Quit worrying so much about what the paper says and actually look at the airplane and decide what kind of shape it is in.
     
  7. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    If the repairs have been made, many hours on the airframe after the repair, your prebuy AP gives it a thumbs up you get nothing. damage doesn't automatically generate what a buyer perceives as a discount.


    If your AP finds issues, it's anyone's guess.


    There are two types of aircraft...... those with damage history, and those with undocumented damage history.


    But I know where you are going with it. you want the bird, maybe a lot, and want to squeeze the seller for every last drop you can. I've been on both sides if the coin so I understand your though process; willing to accept it was damaged but want an offset so you feel like you got a smoking deal and if you ever sold it, would end up holding the bag.

    Pull the FAA CD and see what it says. I have found 337s tend to be succinct and lacking satisfying narratives.
     
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  8. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    general rule on the mooney forum is little impact if >10 years with proper repairs. my plane had a gear up in 1966. I couldn't use that as leverage when I bought it. :D
     
  9. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

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    Thanks will assess once I have more records and details from engine shop that performed the repairs.
     
  10. Cruiser

    Cruiser Pre-takeoff checklist

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    as a comparison, how much would you deduct for a new engine? The old one was removed and replaced with new. NO difference, as far as the airplane is concerned.
     
  11. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    It's the repairs to the airframe that count. They have to have been done right. And that usually requires an experienced eye doing the inspection, not just paperwork in the airplane records.
    Engines can be rebuilt or replaced.
     
  12. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    If the repair shop is still bucking rivets, give them a call and see if they have any records on it too. may be surprised.....good or bad.
     
  13. coloradobluesky

    coloradobluesky En-Route Gone West

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    If you are the buyer, 10k. If you are the seller, none.
     
  14. rtk11

    rtk11 Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Seems that my dialogs with AOPA and looking at the declining scale on some Vref websites, the older the incident, the less of a factor it plays into the value of the aircraft. (Much as Rbridges described)
     
  15. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    It all depends on how good the repair and how bad the seller wants to move the plane. If the seller doesn't need to move the plane in a hurry, there's little incentive to accept a lowball offer for a properly repaired aircraft.
     
  16. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

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    My concern are when seller cannot produce sufficient documentation for repairs. That leaves a lot of unknown factors that even a prebuy cannot determine. Same for missing logs. These affect the value of plane.
     
  17. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    As I said before, your idea of "sufficient" documentation and what a mechanic and/or repair station is required to provide likely are different. Especially if the repair was made longer ago.

    It would also be in your best interest to actually read the FARs and see what maintenance documentation an owner is required to keep and what can be disposed of. Your expectations and what the FARs say are very likely different.
     
  18. SmashTime

    SmashTime Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Id say you offer him 50% of his asking price.

    Damage is damage, you dont want to be flying an airplane thats been repaired.... Lord knows only a few have had accidents. Let me get you the salesman for a new cirrus, that way you know for sure you're getting a good deal.

    Seriously, if it flys good and passes your prebuy... Stop trying to Mohammad jihad the guy out of 10-30%....
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
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  19. DutchessFlier

    DutchessFlier Line Up and Wait

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    Im sorry, but as a jewish person, I find your use if the term 'jew the guy out of...' pretty offensive.
     
  20. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

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    That is what I will do offer half. Not in rush. Right now I need to finish my A&P training and then can find a project plane which is unfortunately most of the used single piston aircraft fleet in spite of seller and broker denial. That or build a new RV from scratch to put my A&P skills to the test with another A&P. I can build a brand new RV for 100k that is as fast as a new Bonanza for 1/6 the cost! I know folks who spend 250k for a used Cirrus or late model Mooney/Cessna/Bonanza but that is insane unless you have money to burn.
     
  21. JoseCuervo

    JoseCuervo En-Route

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    Try and find an old retract without a few gear-up landings in the log books.

    Part of the game.
     
  22. SmashTime

    SmashTime Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I will try to be more politically correct with my future posts. Sorry to of hurt your feelings.
     
  23. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    you're forgiven, try to have thicker skin next time ;)

    frankly I think its a compliment, being able to get a better deal is a good thing, but whatever, lest someone's feeling get brused
     
  24. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You're deluded. I've never seen anybody who regarded it as a compliment.

    From now, use the term "Trump" instead.
     
  25. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    If people said "don't James the guy down", meaning get a better deal for yourself, you have my full blessing to coin the phrase

    My Jewish friends are also the ones who tell the most f'd up jew jokes, but I know some folks are sensitive nowadays.
     
  26. Mason

    Mason Pattern Altitude

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    Unless you are playing Bridge, I find your reference offensive. :eek:
     
  27. weirdjim

    weirdjim Ejection Handle Pulled

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    It is quite a common term, even in Webster's Unabridged, for "trump" (small t) to mean beat, get the best of, or win. Yes, it IS a Bridge term that weaseled its way into the language.

    Forgive the reference if you are a weasel.

    Jim
     
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  28. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    That's like the N word. Some people spew it all day long, it's on TV, in music, on the streets. But the "Wrong" person uses it and all of the sudden they are offended and want to fight. It makes front page news, a "racists" is labeled and crucified. The masses go right back to calling each other N.....

    Isn't it funny how the most hypersensitive ones are the most hypocritical?
     
  29. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You can call me a cracker or a redneck or whatever, knowing what actually matters and seeing real issues, it's laughable when folks come unglued over such trivial crap.
     
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  30. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

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    Heck I get Polish jokes all the time and as a Polish guy do not get offended at all in fact I laugh at them. Same with Jewish jokes.
     
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  31. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

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    So why is it ok for blacks to call each other the N word? I for one could never understand that and even after asking my black friends they are puzzled as well!
     
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