How much time to get glider add-on?
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bqmassey
Line Up and Wait
Like anything else it depends on how much you fly and how dedicated you are. There are commercial places you can go get it done in less than a week.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
Commercial school - a week or so (and some operate year round)
Club - could be years.
Club - could be years.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
It depends.
How proficient are you before you show up at the glider field?
If its been years since you've flown, you have a long way to go.
Commercial operations can and do get add-ons complete within a week, with proficient pilots. You'll be flying every day, a lot of flying and hitting the books hard every night. But remember, it's enough to pass a check ride, then you'll need to learn how to soar.
If you are not an active power pilot before starting training, do not expect to complete in a week.
Clubs are normally weekend only operations. Plus clubs have other members to train in limited hours of daylight. Plan on about 1 hr per student. Weekends lost to weather.
Flying with a club is what you put into it, and how you prioritize your flights and your training. Don't show up after lunch and expect to fly before sunset, first come first served.
It's a club, you need to preflight and get the glider to the flight line, you need to help with tow ropes and launching other gliders, you need to put the glider away at the end of the day. A Commercial operation will gladly do all of that for you and charge accordingly.
In a club operation, you can get an add-on in a few months. But I've seen others in the same club take a year if they are only flying twice a month.
Non proficient pilots need to relearn the basics, speed control, glide control, rudder work, accuracy landings. Plus learning to fly on tow, basic formation flying.
How proficient are you before you show up at the glider field?
If its been years since you've flown, you have a long way to go.
Commercial operations can and do get add-ons complete within a week, with proficient pilots. You'll be flying every day, a lot of flying and hitting the books hard every night. But remember, it's enough to pass a check ride, then you'll need to learn how to soar.
If you are not an active power pilot before starting training, do not expect to complete in a week.
Clubs are normally weekend only operations. Plus clubs have other members to train in limited hours of daylight. Plan on about 1 hr per student. Weekends lost to weather.
Flying with a club is what you put into it, and how you prioritize your flights and your training. Don't show up after lunch and expect to fly before sunset, first come first served.
It's a club, you need to preflight and get the glider to the flight line, you need to help with tow ropes and launching other gliders, you need to put the glider away at the end of the day. A Commercial operation will gladly do all of that for you and charge accordingly.
In a club operation, you can get an add-on in a few months. But I've seen others in the same club take a year if they are only flying twice a month.
Non proficient pilots need to relearn the basics, speed control, glide control, rudder work, accuracy landings. Plus learning to fly on tow, basic formation flying.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
Winter is our training season. If you are in Davis, CA, I expect the same for clubs or commercial operations in you area. Start now, air is smoother easier to learn the basics. Then you'll be ready for the turbulent spring / summer air and cross country flying.
ClimbnSink
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Greg
Don't believe all the romantic talk of pushing gliders around with your sky brothers at clubs. Go to a commercial operation get the ticket in a few days, if you like glider flying join your local club. And start glider shopping, the only people that make out in glider clubs are private owners and power pilots that like to tow. Everyone else is a swabbie. As for your sky brothers, well no friends on a booming day at least no friends without gliders that can keep up the pace.
Mine took two days, one in AZ, the second on a different business trip to FL. Read and study Bob Wander's books ahead of time.
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On a per-hour basis, glider training is expensive. Once you get the hang of soaring, it becomes the cheapest flying you'll do. A $60 tow can lead to a many hour flight.
rottydaddy
En-Route
If you're not in a hurry, find a club. They come in all flavors, but some, like ours, offer an equity share in the gliders, nominal dues, full insurance and SSA membership, no hourly rate for the aircraft, free instruction, and cheap tow fees.
Nothing romantic about it, unless flying cheap makes your heart beat faster (like mine does).
The awful drudgery (I call it exercise) and excruciating social interaction (I call it hanging out with friends/meeting new people and introducing them to soaring) are part of it, but it's mostly about flying.
Took me two seasons to get to the check ride (due more to my own schedule than anything else), but I had fun, and it cost me little.
Did my commercial add-on after that, so now when I fly paying pax, my tow is free. Didn't get to fly as much as I wanted this last season (again my schedule, not the club's limitations), but other than dues, I paid nothing. Even got a tip from a paying customer!!
But no matter what route you take, as pointed out above, once you get the hang of working lift, the hourly cost depends on your own determination... this can mean many hours of cheap flying.
Nothing romantic about it, unless flying cheap makes your heart beat faster (like mine does).
The awful drudgery (I call it exercise) and excruciating social interaction (I call it hanging out with friends/meeting new people and introducing them to soaring) are part of it, but it's mostly about flying.Took me two seasons to get to the check ride (due more to my own schedule than anything else), but I had fun, and it cost me little.
Did my commercial add-on after that, so now when I fly paying pax, my tow is free. Didn't get to fly as much as I wanted this last season (again my schedule, not the club's limitations), but other than dues, I paid nothing. Even got a tip from a paying customer!!
But no matter what route you take, as pointed out above, once you get the hang of working lift, the hourly cost depends on your own determination... this can mean many hours of cheap flying.
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poadeleted20
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Note that it doesn't take much for a PP-ASEL to meet the FAA requirements to add on a Glider category rating:
...and no additional written test is required..
FormerHangie
En-Route
If you're looking for something less expensive, do consider hang gliding. You should be able to get to the H2 level for less than $1500, and a new glider can be had for less than $5000. Lots of fun as well.
It's not just skimming down a hill these days, hour plus flights are the norm, and world record flight is now 470 miles. There's a nice article here:http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/11/sports/a-record-ride-on-the-texas-wind.html?_r=0
brcase
En-Route
Clubs come in all shapes sizes and prices,
If the prices seem expensive they are probably flying pretty new equipment and may have multple aircraft. A good new two place glider goes for over 100k. Flying one a 40-50 year old two place glider should be pretty cheap. So look around and evaluate what you get for what you are paying, just like you would for commercial operations as well.
Part of the problem with Glider training in the US is it usually required two aircraft and two pilots for a training flight. Clubs lower the price in part by using volunteer or low paid tow pilots and instructors, mechanics, etc.
Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
If the prices seem expensive they are probably flying pretty new equipment and may have multple aircraft. A good new two place glider goes for over 100k. Flying one a 40-50 year old two place glider should be pretty cheap. So look around and evaluate what you get for what you are paying, just like you would for commercial operations as well.
Part of the problem with Glider training in the US is it usually required two aircraft and two pilots for a training flight. Clubs lower the price in part by using volunteer or low paid tow pilots and instructors, mechanics, etc.
Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
ClimbnSink
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Greg
Nooo those hangiethingies are deatthtraps flown by old hippies that ain't been right since jerry died. What you want son is a paraglider.
that's what all the cool kids fly.rrmkru
Pre-takeoff checklist
Local glider place quotes 2,075 for Private and 2,575 for commercial.
Doesn't seem that expensive, but there isn't much around here to compare too that I have found.
Doesn't seem that expensive, but there isn't much around here to compare too that I have found.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
Clubs get bad reputations for the time it takes to learn. Commercial operations get bad reputations for the time it takes to learn.
Clubs - they are all different. It isn't easy to coordinate a CFI/towpilot/groundcrew/student schedule, and it's hard to do that on a consistent basis for training. It's even harder with limited resources (one trainer, one cfi, one towpilot, mulitple students, ...). But - you will be training for a long enough time that you will find yourself in a lot of different weather and lift conditions. It's the case of "you can have 100 hrs of experience, or you can have one hour of experience 100 times".
Commercial ops - knock out your rating in a short amount of time. Then what? So much of flying gliders is art, and so much of that is based on the different experiences you've had with different weather and lift conditions. You will have your rating quickly, but in many ways you won't have near the experience someone in a club will have.
Combination - (1) start training in a club, finish at a commercial school. Or (2) do commercial first, then join a club. (1) seems to work best - you get a lot of experience and fit in with the club, then get your rating and have a place to fly. (2) I've seen this before, and it can be awkward sometimes. The "new guy" hasn't paid his dues by crewing on weekends through a long hot summer like the rest, shows up just to get a tow, then goes home.
It depends on personalities, what you are trying to get out that rating, and what works best for you.
Clubs - they are all different. It isn't easy to coordinate a CFI/towpilot/groundcrew/student schedule, and it's hard to do that on a consistent basis for training. It's even harder with limited resources (one trainer, one cfi, one towpilot, mulitple students, ...). But - you will be training for a long enough time that you will find yourself in a lot of different weather and lift conditions. It's the case of "you can have 100 hrs of experience, or you can have one hour of experience 100 times".
Commercial ops - knock out your rating in a short amount of time. Then what? So much of flying gliders is art, and so much of that is based on the different experiences you've had with different weather and lift conditions. You will have your rating quickly, but in many ways you won't have near the experience someone in a club will have.
Combination - (1) start training in a club, finish at a commercial school. Or (2) do commercial first, then join a club. (1) seems to work best - you get a lot of experience and fit in with the club, then get your rating and have a place to fly. (2) I've seen this before, and it can be awkward sometimes. The "new guy" hasn't paid his dues by crewing on weekends through a long hot summer like the rest, shows up just to get a tow, then goes home.
It depends on personalities, what you are trying to get out that rating, and what works best for you.
ClimbnSink
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Greg
That is a shame. It ain't hard to get to the good stuff, but we make it harder by far then it should be.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
Our club has no capital investment fee.
One years dues up front, $360. SAA membership, $64, total $424 to join.
Tow, $30 to 2K, $5 per additional 1K altitude.
SGS 2-33A is our primary trainer, sure it's old, but is safe, $12/hr
Grob 103 Twin II, $27/hr.
Depending on power proficiency, expect about 10 flights in the 2-33 before solo.
Normal 3 flight lesson can run about $100 for the hour.
Some people need more flights. airspeed and glide path control being the biggest issue. Round out too high, get slow and drop it in.
Second biggest issue is the cross controlled stall.
Third is learning what their feet are for with the yaw dance.
Complete solo requirements in a 1-26D, $12/hr.
Back to the 2-33 for polish and check ride.
Some clubs have a Grob 103 for primary training, some of are larger pilots require it.
You can learn in the Grob if you desire.
As for the post that they would not let him fly the 2-32. Did they see something they did not like in your 2-33 flying? 2-32s can bite if not flown well. But you learn what you are trained. You can learn the 2-32, it's heavy, requires good flying skills and don't get slow or sloppy.
One years dues up front, $360. SAA membership, $64, total $424 to join.
Tow, $30 to 2K, $5 per additional 1K altitude.
SGS 2-33A is our primary trainer, sure it's old, but is safe, $12/hr
Grob 103 Twin II, $27/hr.
Depending on power proficiency, expect about 10 flights in the 2-33 before solo.
Normal 3 flight lesson can run about $100 for the hour.
Some people need more flights. airspeed and glide path control being the biggest issue. Round out too high, get slow and drop it in.
Second biggest issue is the cross controlled stall.
Third is learning what their feet are for with the yaw dance.
Complete solo requirements in a 1-26D, $12/hr.
Back to the 2-33 for polish and check ride.
Some clubs have a Grob 103 for primary training, some of are larger pilots require it.
You can learn in the Grob if you desire.
As for the post that they would not let him fly the 2-32. Did they see something they did not like in your 2-33 flying? 2-32s can bite if not flown well. But you learn what you are trained. You can learn the 2-32, it's heavy, requires good flying skills and don't get slow or sloppy.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
Remember a commercial operation is just that. A business trying to make a profit. Cost of tows and rentals are inflated to cover employees, commercial insurance rates, maintenance, fuel and an income for the owner to feed his family.
Your costs will be higher.
Clubs operate on lower costs with volunteers.
denverpilot
Tied Down
I did, they use the 2-32 for scenic rides so they didn't want to give them up to me for training for a few hours was the impression I got. I thought the 2-33 flew a bit like a brick with wings, but what do I know. Other than the large control inputs needed compared to what I'm used to and trying to fit a 6'3 225lb guy in the airplane I didn't see anything terribly challenging, just fly it on the runway and hold the nose off until you really want to stop
I liked the 2-33A a whole lot more after I kicked some $100K glass ship's butt in a tight thermal one day and passed him on the way up. Heh. Either he couldn't hold the turn, due to a higher stall speed, or he just sucked. I don't know. I just had a huge grin in my face the rest of the day knowing I whooped his butt in climb rate by a large margin in the old fabric beast. It was fun to bail out of the thermal a couple thousand feet above him watching him still struggling to come on up. Heh. Totally smoked him.
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Witmo
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Tim
I liked the 2-33A a whole lot more after I kicked some $100K glass ship's butt in a tight thermal one day and passed him on the way up. Heh. Either he couldn't hold the turn, due to a higher stall speed, or he just sucked. I don't know. I just had a huge grin in my face the rest of the day knowing I whooped his butt in climb rate by a large margin in the old fabric beast. It was fun to bail out of the thermal a couple thousand feet above him watching him still struggling to come on up. Heh. Totally smoked him.
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Unfortunately he smoked you going from point A to point B. Our club president owns a PW-5 that out thermals just about everything we have but the Discus and ASWs go 100s of km's in the course of an afternoon while the PW-5 goes up and down and rarely very far from home on windy days.
But I still like the PW-5! Have not flown one, but think they'd be a fun personal glider.
Dead Stick
Line Up and Wait
I've had students who were able to do commercial add-ons in three flying days and private add-ons in two flying days. The big problem with accelerated training schedules like those is coordinating with the DPE, followed very closely by scheduling all of the ground help, tow pilots, etc. Like Ron said, there's not a lot to it, but it can be an exercise in scheduling and coordination. However, it is definitely worth the effort.
ClimbnSink
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Greg
Damn I did my commercial add on in 5 days(soloed after 3 flights) and thought I was busy. 3 days is nuts, just from the number of flights needing to be done. I had good weather but not great soaring weather. On one of the days the ridge worked and I had to keep leaving it to knock out flights.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
I did, they use the 2-32 for scenic rides so they didn't want to give them up to me for training for a few hours was the impression I got. I thought the 2-33 flew a bit like a brick with wings, but what do I know. Other than the large control inputs needed compared to what I'm used to and trying to fit a 6'3 225lb guy in the airplane I didn't see anything terribly challenging, just fly it on the runway and hold the nose off until you really want to stop
I had intended to add it onto my CFI but decided against that pretty early.
I'll agree that the front seat of a 2-33 is a tough for for a 6'-3" pilot. The Grob is better for the taller pilots. It's hard for tall pilots to get your knees out of the way for full stick roll deflection in the 2-33.