"How I Designed a Practical Electric Plane for NASA"

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Richard Palm
This looks interesting:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/how-i-designed-a-practical-electric-plane-for-nasa

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That's sounds pretty cool. Four questions come to mind:

1. As the very first commenter on the article posted, I wonder about pitch control wth the thrust so far back and above the CG.
2. He doesn't discuss the structure. I'd think the structure in the empennage and elevons would have to be more robust than the Cirrus not only to transfer the thrust but also to handle the vibration.
3. Isn't water the byproduct of fuel cells? Is he dumping the water overboard, or storing on board?
4. Where do you top off with hydrogen?

Kudos to the kid for putting some good thought into the energy part of the problem though.
 
That's sounds pretty cool. Four questions come to mind:

1. As the very first commenter on the article posted, I wonder about pitch control wth the thrust so far back and above the CG.
2. He doesn't discuss the structure. I'd think the structure in the empennage and elevons would have to be more robust than the Cirrus not only to transfer the thrust but also to handle the vibration.
3. Isn't water the byproduct of fuel cells? Is he dumping the water overboard, or storing on board?
4. Where do you top off with hydrogen?

Kudos to the kid for putting some good thought into the energy part of the problem though.
Good points.
 
The big one is fuel availability.

Just how much is 100 miles of hydrogen going to cost, when it has badly failed in the automotive market?
 
The big one is fuel availability.

Just how much is 100 miles of hydrogen going to cost, when it has badly failed in the automotive market?
The author agrees with you:

"Another hurdle is that hydrogen has not yet caught on as a fuel for automobiles, much less for airplanes. Both applications suffer the chicken-and-egg problem: Until it becomes a popular fuel there will be little infrastructure to support the distribution of hydrogen, and until there is infrastructure to support its availability, it won’t become popular."
 
The author agrees with you:

"Another hurdle is that hydrogen has not yet caught on as a fuel for automobiles, much less for airplanes. Both applications suffer the chicken-and-egg problem: Until it becomes a popular fuel there will be little infrastructure to support the distribution of hydrogen, and until there is infrastructure to support its availability, it won’t become popular."
About infrastructure, yes. About practicality due to price, he didn't address. Avgas costs around $0.50/mile for a light single. Hydrogen must compete with that. There will never be an economy of scale if the automotive market doesn't participate even tangentially, and it's not at all obvious it will be practical. Even with appropriate tanks, trucks, gauges, etc., it will be very vulnerable to shortage.
 
About infrastructure, yes. About practicality due to price, he didn't address. Avgas costs around $0.50/mile for a light single. Hydrogen must compete with that. There will never be an economy of scale if the automotive market doesn't participate even tangentially, and it's not at all obvious it will be practical. Even with appropriate tanks, trucks, gauges, etc., it will be very vulnerable to shortage.
Have you heard anything about whether NASA thinks this could be in production within the stated goal of five years?
 
Have you heard anything about whether NASA thinks this could be in production within the stated goal of five years?
No. I don't have inside information on the aeronautics division, even at Ames, let alone the entire Agency. I have one buddy at HQ, but she's in Astrophysics.
 
The distribution issue is what makes hydrogen challenging. There are lots of ways to make hydrogen so the cost of it I don think will be an issue. Setting up the infrastructure to store and distribute is key. Agree the automobile industry would need to embrace this to make it possible for aviation. Then again maybe not.....the beauty of hydrogen is that it can be generated on-site eliminating the need to distribute. Just need a power source, which could even be solar, wind, etc., and you can make hydrogen all day long.
 
I wonder what effect these technologies would have on service ceiling? Could such a propulsion system replace today's turbocharged and turbo-normalized engines by allowing flights into the flight levels?
 
I wonder what effect these technologies would have on service ceiling? Could such a propulsion system replace today's turbocharged and turbo-normalized engines by allowing flights into the flight levels?

It's not a drop-in replacement for an engine, so it will have no effect on existing airframes.

Much of the "practicality" comes from the unique airframe design. If it works -- and that's a really big if, as this airplane is vapor -- the devil will be in the details about service ceiling. Density altitude also affects the aerodynamics, in addition to the engine power. You may, for instance, need a larger prop at higher altitudes to keep the efficiency up.

With current battery technology, the effective ceiling will likely be VERY low, or you'll give up far too much range for the altitude. Much like the first generation of hybrid cars, which depended upon very low weight and tiny motors and engines in order to get some of their fuel mileage. A Honda Insight in the mountains was an unpleasant endeavor. Modern EVs, not so much.

A hydrogen fuel cell still burns oxygen, and density altitude will affect it. However, it does use less of it than a gasoline engine. In principle, you could imagine something similar to supercharging.

Adding extra weight such as a pressurization system is a question best reserved for after this airplane actually exists. In principle, it should be possible, but the same statement goes for a conventional gasoline engine. There is nothing fundamental that prevents a normally aspirated engine from operating in the flight levels. It's just impractical as the engine would have to be severely oversized for low altitude operations, and will add a lot of weight because of that.
 
Its an MU2 w/o the nacelles!
 
...With current battery technology, the effective ceiling will likely be VERY low, or you'll give up far too much range for the altitude...
How does battery technology affect this fuel cell powered airplane?
 
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