How does the FAA research people's medical history

Hopefully at the end of the year, reccomendations for the new medical form will be completed and some of the FAA's medical fishing will be constrained.
 
Clip4 said:
Hopefully at the end of the year, reccomendations for the new medical form will be completed and some of the FAA's medical fishing will be constrained.
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It's actually going to get worse under Obamacare

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
Clip4 said:
Yep, just like it did under medicare.
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Electronic medical records & universal insurance requirements make it far, far easier for FAA (or other government agencies) to fish. Any new FAA form will ensure that you consent to the fishing - just like you consent to FAA examining driver license records. And unlike Medicare (which applies only to a segment of the population), EMR & universal insurance will apply to all.

I'm not saying it's good or bad, just pointing out that it's a pipedream to think that the FAA will be less able to fish in the future.
 
wsuffa said:
Electronic medical records & universal insurance requirements make it far, far easier for FAA (or other government agencies) to fish. Any new FAA form will ensure that you consent to the fishing - just like you consent to FAA examining driver license records. And unlike Medicare (which applies only to a segment of the population), EMR & universal insurance will apply to all.

I'm not saying it's good or bad, just pointing out that it's a pipedream to think that the FAA will be less able to fish in the future.
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Oh, I am not saying they will not have the means to investigate, I am just hoping the questions on the form will be more relevant and less broad.
 
I have scrubbed this of identity but I want to give this board a taste of what I cope with every day. Starts out pretty innocuous, but obviously is going to lie. And this is from a "0 post poster".

All this is in PMs.
I will have NONE of this.
*****

11/06/2013

“0 post poster” (POA)


Re: Hi Doc - please talk me through my situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbchien
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0 Post poster
I am a junior in high school and I really am hoping to persue a proffesional flying career in the future. But recently I have discovered an issue that may keep me from doing so.

So here is the story...

The other day I was speaking to a friend about his AME examination. I heard he was on Vynase for his ADHD. I told him he should be cautious about that - and later found on the internet that the FAA treats mental disorders very strictly.

I remembered that I had a Neuropsychiatrical evaluation when I was in fifth grade, an evaluation that now allows me to get extra time on my academic tests - including the SAT. I was worried that there was diagnosis for some mental disorder.

I later go home and search through my parents files to find the report to the evaluation. It lists that I am diagnosed with ADD (Inattentive type). But when you look further at the report - the results suggest that the diagnosis may be slightly a load of BS.

I scored normal on all the tests, even in the 96th percentile for problem solving, except for scoring in the 1st percentile on the last test. My best assumption was that being a typical kid, I decided to stop trying in the tests only just to get the thing over with.

Anyways, I was devastated seeing this diagnosis. But my parents, even my mother - someone who has gone through med school, fellowship, and residency - thinks the diagnosis is unofficial and by far not correct.

I even ended up contacting my doctor, and he informed me that there was NO medical listing on my records for a diagnosis for ADD. It seems that this evaluation report is only in the hands of my parents, that specialist, and my school for the accommodations.

I have taken NO medications, and frankly, I would have likely never found out about this "diagnosis" if it wasn't for my second thoughts after speaking to my friend.

Here is where my question comes in...

I hear that ADD with the FAA is normally disqualifying. Frankly - I think this is ridiculous given ADD in many cases is "misdiagnosed", but I have no power against that. If I were to list it on my first medical application (first class), then what procedure should I expect to go through given my circumstances?

I have had multiple people tell me to not list the diagnosis on the medical. They tell me that this will only be a problem in the future if the FAA happens to go "digging" through my files. But again, there is not a single document in my medical records with my doctor that lists I have ADD. Do you think that they would happen to come across the Neuro Psychiatrist that evaluated me back in 5th grade? That seems nearly impossible.

Thanks for your help.

0 Post Poster

Well, if you don't list it, and there was any insurance payment involved, at your first "deal"....you **** off ATC, or you bend metal, every certificate you earn will be revoked.

Doc-mom will understand the importance of getting you a GOOD, federally accredited cognitive profile, particularly if you were found to have one of the twelve areas at the first percentile (and if you were just un-cooperative on that one, you were being stupid). Your 12 cognitive functions will be statistically scored against other 17 year olds and adjusted for IQ. If you don't have significant weakness in verbal attn. and visual attn., ADD of any variety-you haven't got.

If you send a regular email, aeromedicaldoc@comcast.net, I'll send the spec sheet on the eval. There are HIMS certified guys ( about 20 neuropsychologists) whose work is recognized as good at face value, by the agency. You'll have to pay cash anyway, these are now considered "Occupational medicine" not healthcare.

It's EASY for someone else to tell YOU to falsify an affidavit. But Uncle Sam can make you wish you had never been born. Don't go that route. Get vetted, above board. Otherwise you will forever be trouble to remember which version of the truth you last told.

Dr. Bruce

What if there was no insurance payment involved? I probably wont do such a stupid thing, but how often does the FAA even go digging through your records like that?

Otherwise how hard would it be for me to get a medical if I do admit it. It seems like such a diagnosis would place me in such serious position - and I worry about that with the FAA. I am no means mentally disabled - and I can fly an airplane fine.
*****
Originally Posted by 0 Post Poster
Your opinion do you think I can get a first class medical? Thanks for your help by the way.

If you have an exonerative neuropsych profile, yes. The eligibility line is the same no matter what class- you either have the problem, or don't.

ADD is born in, is not acquired, and does NOT go away. You have it or you don't. If you have professional aspirations and you do not do this eval, I would be VERY afraid. You could lose all your certificates at any time.
Dr Bruce



0 Post Poster
Would you mind sharing the stories of people you know that have had ADHD or ADD in the past and whether they have listed it or not on their medical.

I had another AME tell me that getting busted for lying is a long shot unless you are affected by an ongoing serious condition that would cause you to fault in flight. He says that even if I ended up getting investigated, he doubts that they would come across a single medical document that isn't even listed with personal doctor.

And there was no insurance payment involved because I was refereed by my teacher to the specialist. My parents wanted to know my academic strengths and weaknesses for an educational matter, and not an medical matter.
******

Your opinion do you think I can get a first class medical? Thanks for your help by the way.



0 Post Poster
So with that being said not mentioning it may be worth it?

Re: Hi Doc - please talk me through my situation.

Where the hell did you get that from?

A liar has no place on the flight deck.
If you don't report it, you will be on eggshells for life.
You are taking everything said and twisting it.


This conversation is OVER.
I cannot advise nonreporting.
You, are going to have a lousy life.


YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. I HOPE YOU ARE READING THIS. I am not here to help airmen who are willing to lie, to elude FAA. DO NOT PM ME AGAIN.

****

then a few minutes ago:
"0 Post poster"
Figures given you are with the FAA. Only if they would think reasonably with such an over-diagnosed condition.[/QUOTE]
******

Believe what you want. I don't work for FAA. It may be overdiagnosed but the form says have you ever in your life been diagnosed.....and you will have to lie on that one to not report it.

So the proper route is to disabuse the diagnosis.
What you propose sounds like, "well I didn't believe I was speeding so I didn't stop for the flashing blue light"

GOODBYE.


So dear POA-ers, I have turned off my PMs and emails.
 
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Wow Bruce.... It's amazing you don't have a permanent imprint of your keyboard from /headesking because of folks like this.

I do empathize with you... I get to deal with similar folks (and a few employes) in my biz that act/think this way. No fun, loads of frustration, no profits.

bth_thheaddesk2.gif
 
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Parents win again: I remembered that I had a Neuropsychiatrical evaluation when I was in fifth grade, an evaluation that now allows me to get extra time on my academic tests - including the SAT
Haha your parents gamed the system and screwed you in the process.
 
The worst part of this is Dr. Bruce turning off PM and email. I hope he still accepts phone calls and snail mail.
 
So I always thought an ADD diagnosis is completely disqualifying. Recently I started listening to a new (to me) aviation podcast and one of the hosts (who owns several planes) has ADD and is pretty open about it, in fact he even runs another website/podcast for ADD support.

I'm guessing if you're not on meds for it and you can pass some sort of psych testing it's not completely grounding? Am I guessing correctly here?
 
Henning said:
We don't exist on anybody's radar. Unless you are in an accident or otherwise call attention to yourself, the likely hood of getting caught at anything is very slim. There was a round of action where the FAA compared notes with the Social Security Administration over their disabled list overlapping the FAA airman list that got some people in trouble, but outside that, not much action.
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I recall that incident, and at least one of the individuals prevailed in court. Social Security could not legally share their information with the FAA. Just another example of the government breaking the laws they're supposed to enforce.
 
mrdavedpg said:
So I always thought an ADD diagnosis is completely disqualifying. Recently I started listening to a new (to me) aviation podcast and one of the hosts (who owns several planes) has ADD and is pretty open about it, in fact he even runs another website/podcast for ADD support.

I'm guessing if you're not on meds for it and you can pass some sort of psych testing it's not completely grounding? Am I guessing correctly here?
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Well, if he passed psych testing he's legit (because he really doesn't (by the most ADVANCED standard), have ADD. ADD is actually a spectru problem, with varying levels of weakness in the two cognitive functions in question. But ADD is still totally grounding. Advertising it, is just asking for the axe. I know to whom you are listening but I will not turn the guy in.

The demand letter will eventually get to him.
 
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Bruce- you can't fix the world. Some people will just lie. I'm taking a break by reading PoA now from writing a paper regarding an issue I'm dealing with because of a police officer who lied (nevermind all the douchebags who supported the lie).
 
Jaybird180 said:
Bruce- you can't fix the world. Some people will just lie. I'm taking a break by reading PoA now from writing a paper regarding an issue I'm dealing with because of a police officer who lied (nevermind all the douchebags who supported the lie).
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That never happens on TV. Couldn't it possibly be a mistake? TV says all cops are good guys and have tiny case loads and they can put teams of 20 experts on every homicide. And they never lie and they always get their man unless he's a special case to torment the lead character on the show.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Bruce- you can't fix the world. Some people will just lie. I'm taking a break by reading PoA now from writing a paper regarding an issue I'm dealing with because of a police officer who lied (nevermind all the douchebags who supported the lie).
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Yeah. A Liar LEO with the public trust and deserves to have his a_se busted. That's why I run a camera in my vehicle at all times.

This country is turning into Afghanistan....
The skies, however, are exclusively Federal. Their ballpark.
 
Dr Chien, I've read your posts on why we should report all conditions honestly -- and that sounds like a great idea going forward. But, what happens if something wasn't reported in the past and an airman wants to come clean? How does the FAA treat an airman that had a successfully treated thyroid cancer years ago and continues to monitor and treat the condition but failed to mention it? Reading your posts makes it scary to underreport, but perhaps more scary to come clean. Is there truly an incentive to start reporting such a condition, or is there presently an incentive to continue to fly under the radar? If there's a chance they will crack down on the airman, there is little incentive to come clean. He's much more likely to take his chances on getting busted if something were to go wrong rather than increase his chances of getting busted.
 
Unregistered said:
Dr Chien, I've read your posts on why we should report all conditions honestly -- and that sounds like a great idea going forward. But, what happens if something wasn't reported in the past and an airman wants to come clean? How does the FAA treat an airman that had a successfully treated thyroid cancer years ago and continues to monitor and treat the condition but failed to mention it? Reading your posts makes it scary to underreport, but perhaps more scary to come clean. Is there truly an incentive to start reporting such a condition, or is there presently an incentive to continue to fly under the radar? If there's a chance they will crack down on the airman, there is little incentive to come clean. He's much more likely to take his chances on getting busted if something were to go wrong rather than increase his chances of getting busted.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, Dr. Bruce Chien no longer actively participates on this forum.

If you wish for him to answer your questions, you can email them directly to aeromedicaldoc@comcast.net. Additionally, he can be found on the AOPA forums, or via his website, www.aeromedicaldoc.com
 
Unregistered said:
Dr Chien, I've read your posts on why we should report all conditions honestly -- and that sounds like a great idea going forward. But, what happens if something wasn't reported in the past and an airman wants to come clean? How does the FAA treat an airman that had a successfully treated thyroid cancer years ago and continues to monitor and treat the condition but failed to mention it? Reading your posts makes it scary to underreport, but perhaps more scary to come clean. Is there truly an incentive to start reporting such a condition, or is there presently an incentive to continue to fly under the radar? If there's a chance they will crack down on the airman, there is little incentive to come clean. He's much more likely to take his chances on getting busted if something were to go wrong rather than increase his chances of getting busted.
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Sometimes it is better to just let sleeping dogs lie.
 
It would depend on just what the issue that wasn't reported was. But frankly, you might be advised to seek legal rather than medical counsel before confession to falsifying applications.
 
Re:

I have a brother that was diagnosed with epilepsy but is under control with medication and got his third class medical? how is he flying under the radar of the faa
 
Re:

Unregistered said:
I have a brother that was diagnosed with epilepsy but is under control with medication and got his third class medical? how is he flying under the radar of the faa
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If said brother answered truthfully about his condition, and supplied all required medical documentation, and meets the standards set by the FAA, I believe epilepsy is allowed as a Special Issuance.

From the 2014 AME Guide published on the FAA.gov website. (All formatting for emphasis is done by me)

18.l. Neurological disorders; epilepsy, seizures, stroke, paralysis, etc. The applicant should provide history and treatment, pertinent medical records, current status report and medication. The Examiner should obtain details about such a history and report the results. An established diagnosis of epilepsy, a transient loss of control of nervous system function(s), or a disturbance of consciousness is a basis for denial no matter how remote the history. Like all other conditions of aeromedical concern, the history surrounding the event is crucial. Certification is possible if a satisfactory explanation can be established.​

Under the guidance of what to do, we find:

Condition: Epilepsy(6), Rolandic Seizures
Medical Class: All
Evaluation Data: Submit all pertinent medical records, current status report, to include name and dosage of medication(s) and side effects
Disposition: Requires FAA Decision

(6) Unexplained syncope, single seizure. An applicant who has a history of epilepsy, a disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause, or a transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause must be denied or deferred by the Examiner. Rolandic seizures may be eligible for certification if the applicant is seizure free for 4 years and has a normal EEG. Consultation with the FAA required.​
 
Re:

Unregistered said:
I have a brother that was diagnosed with epilepsy but is under control with medication and got his third class medical? how is he flying under the radar of the faa
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He does not have to be under the radar. There are many times deferred conditions are issued with a Special Issuance. Rather than being "under the radar" now he has a discreet squawk instead of 1200 as with a regular issuance. They don't always just say no, sometimes they just want to make sure the situation is being addressed and is under control.
 
You can likely tell if he has a special issuance by looking him up in the FAA database. The FAA illegally provides the information on the public access site (as well as refusing to opt out as required by law). If he has a restriction that says "Not valid for any class after date" he has an SI.
 
TMetzinger said:
True, but only for controlled substances. We (speaking as a former DEA'er) don't care about antibiotics, for instance (FDA might).
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Correct, pharmacies only report controlled substance prescriptions to the DEA, all other records, (depending on individual states) must be kept for a specifying time period. No records can be released without permission of the individual or a subpoena.

wsuffa said:
Keep in mind that the big government push toward electronic medical records will alter the equation. Significantly. The goal is to generate lifetime records kept in a data warehouse.

.
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Electronic medical records are already here and as with e-mails there will always be an electronic trail. That being said medical records are "supposed" to be private according to big brother.
 
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Question: If it comes to the attention of the FAA that you have been using Vicodin and Xanax, and they request your medical records, and pass the drug test they require, can a person just claim that they have not been to a doctor or pharmacy in years? I know of a situation currently where this is happening. Since the FAA cannot subpoena your records, I would think they just wouldn't take your word for it and walk away? Even if the pharmacies and doctor's name and address were also turned into the FAA?

Someone who would like on a pilot medical and not report prescriptions or doctor office visits might be inclined to say "no records" instead of incurring the consequences.
 
You would think wrong. The FAA is not a court of law. They're not going to take your word for it. If it comes to their attention that you didn't disclose something, they will act unless you can PROVE otherwise.

They don't have to subpoena anything. You lost your rights to privacy with the ACA and the permission you authorized at the bottom of the medical application.
 
Do you know specifically what they do to find out? I am not the pilot, but am involved in the situation. There is also anti-depression medications that would turn up, as well. I have searched the internet profusely, and cannot seem to find out the exact procedure the FAA uses in a case like this.
 
I have been reading the various threads on this site, and I know the members do not like Anonymous posts. This is a very real situation, and I am not a troll. I just need to put that out there. It is strictly for confidentiality purposes only. Thank you
 
from what's been said before....if there was an insurance code or a script written....they can get those records...and will use that to hang em.
 
Even with the HIPPA privacy laws? This is where I am confused. Thank you in advance for the responses.
 
I recall several years ago, the FAA cross referenced records from their data base with those of the Social Security Administration, Looking for airmen who filed for SSD.
 
Thank you StewartB, they are probably not open today, but would be tomorrow.
 
From my research on the prescription database, it seems to be state by state at the moment. I could not find any information about a " national " database that is currently in effect.
 
Unregistered said:
Even with the HIPPA privacy laws? This is where I am confused. Thank you in advance for the responses.
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Airman sign away any confidentiality granted under HIPAA specifically to the FAA when completing their application for a medical certificate. I haven't looked into what authority the agency has to pull medical records for sport pilots, but under any circumstance they have authority to subpoena medical records in the course of an accident investigation.
 
Actually I just did find that the majority of states are connected. Currently it seems that only 3 are not. The state that this situation is in, is one of those 3.
 
Unregistered said:
Even with the HIPPA privacy laws? This is where I am confused. Thank you in advance for the responses.
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First, it's HIPAA not HIPPA and HIPAA is part of what makes this ACCESSIBLE rather than prohibited.
 
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