How does the FAA research people's medical history

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My friend has a history of migraines and has filled a prescription for Imitrex. He was told by the physician that issued his Medical that if he didn't mention it on the 8500 application (for his medical), no one would be the wiser.

My question is: how does the FAA decide whose Medicals to research to make sure they're telling the truth and how do they go about it? Do they request information from the primary physician, insurance company or pharmacy (or all three). What is their protocol?

Thanks in advance.
 
Generally, unreported doctor visits and drug use goes undetected until something else happens. If you're still alive at that point, you're intentional omission will screw you badly (certificate revocation).
 
flyingron said:
Generally, unreported doctor visits and drug use goes undetected until something else happens. If you're still alive at that point, you're intentional omission will screw you badly (certificate revocation).
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But if reporting prevents getting the certificate in the first place, a post incident revocation isn't really a disincentive.:lol:
 
I wonder how they do research. I currently don't even have medical coverage but found out "basic" stuff like anti-allergy daily medicine / things like that can be transferred to a $4 per month Wal-Mart prescription. Is there some kind of international database? From my limited knowledge of medicine and insurance, they all seem to use their own systems (some are still paper charts). It seems like it would be hard if not impossible to find someone who paid cash at a doctor or something like that. I do not know if those doctors even ask for photo ID or a social security number.
 
There is an insurance database which FAA can access. They will do this if you're involved in an accident or some reportable incident.
 
More often than not things come out after an accident when there is investigation. I've had two friends who had fatal accidents and it was found that they were using disqualifying drugs while flying. The bigger issue is the mess if you omit something that would be issuable (by normal or special issuance) and in a later medical exam for something it comes to light that you lied.
 
First off: Don't lie to the Feds. In addition to certificate revocation, they can certainly prosecute you criminally for intentionally lying to them. The government likes to keep lying as their exclusive right, and don't like it when others try doing it to them.

Second, migraines are SI able. They're even "Letter of Eligibility" material in the right circumstances. I went through the migraine SI, and Dr. Bruce can give you details. Even Imitrex is not disqualifying. I have a note of my LoE that says "No flying withing 24 hours of Imitrex or other triptans"

Does it take time...yep. Let Dr. Bruce tell you what you need, and have the docs in hand when you go for your medical...get your medical honestly.
 
ClimbnSink said:
But if reporting prevents getting the certificate in the first place, a post incident revocation isn't really a disincentive.:lol:
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Correct, now you understand the realities of the system and will quietly conform to the path of least resistance.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
And if you don't have insurance?
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We don't exist on anybody's radar. Unless you are in an accident or otherwise call attention to yourself, the likely hood of getting caught at anything is very slim. There was a round of action where the FAA compared notes with the Social Security Administration over their disabled list overlapping the FAA airman list that got some people in trouble, but outside that, not much action.
 
JeffDG said:
First off: Don't lie to the Feds. In addition to certificate revocation, they can certainly prosecute you criminally for intentionally lying to them..
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I was going to ask you for the citation on that, but then I found this on my last medical application:

- NOTICE -
Whoever in any matter within the
jurisdiction of any department or
agency of the United States
knowingly and willfully falsifies,
conceals or covers up by any trick,
scheme, or device a material fact,
or who makes any false, fictitious
or fraudulent statements or
representations, or entry, may be
fined up to $250,000 or imprisoned
not more than 5 years, or both.
(18 U.S. Code Secs. 1001; 3571).
Click to expand...
 
Henning said:
We don't exist on anybody's radar. Unless you are in an accident or otherwise call attention to yourself, the likely hood of getting caught at anything is very slim. There was a round of action where the FAA compared notes with the Social Security Administration over their disabled list overlapping the FAA airman list that got some people in trouble, but outside that, not much action.
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Ever consider that when a Doctor prescribes a medication, even to someone without insurance, that the prescription is recorded into a database?

Ever hear of the DEA?
 
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Rotor&Wing said:
Ever consider that when a Doctor prescribes a medication, even to someone without insurance, that the prescription is recorded into a database?

Ever hear of the DEA?
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And, of course, under HIPAA ... no one can access those records without my knowledge...

Oops, except government agencies...? :)
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Ever consider that when a Doctor prescribes a medication, even to someone without insurance, that the prescription is recorded into a database?

Ever hear of the DEA?
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Right. I meant if you walk into a doctor or dentist office, pay in cash, then leave, and all they have is a paper system, that seems pretty off the radar to me.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Ever consider that when a Doctor prescribes a medication, even to someone without insurance, that the prescription is recorded into a database?

Ever hear of the DEA?
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I'm sure the records exist no worries, it's just that no one is looking.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Ever consider that when a Doctor prescribes a medication, even to someone without insurance, that the prescription is recorded into a database?

Ever hear of the DEA?
Click to expand...

The DEA doesn't monitor routine prescriptions, except the DEA DOES concern itself with scheduled drugs and illegal substances. States maintain the databases for pseudoephedrine (Sudafed) and other OTC-type drugs.

The FAA CAN access the various databases, including the MIB databases, whether they do so regularly is a different question.
 
wsuffa said:
The DEA doesn't monitor routine prescriptions, except the DEA DOES concern itself with scheduled drugs and illegal substances. States maintain the databases for pseudoephedrine (Sudafed) and other OTC-type drugs.

The FAA CAN access the various databases, including the MIB databases, whether they do so regularly is a different question.
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I got a cold and bought some and had to give them my ID. I didn't fly when on the nasal decongestant though.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Ever consider that when a Doctor prescribes a medication, even to someone without insurance, that the prescription is recorded into a database?

Ever hear of the DEA?
Click to expand...
Only for controlled substances and not necessarily for other drugs. The government is pushing real hard for e-prescribing and then everything will be on a database.
 
Henning said:
Oh yeah, I'm sure the records exist no worries, it's just that no one is looking.
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Last summer while at the Academy I was talking to one of the attorneys that works at MMAC, specifically CAMI.

I made a joke that must be an easy job, and he told me on average he (his office) does approximately 500 enforcements a year.

So just keep telling yourself "no one is looking". :rolleyes:
 
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Gary F said:
Only for controlled substances and not necessarily for other drugs. The government is pushing real hard for e-prescribing and then everything will be on a database.
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Let me clarify that I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of stuff medical, hence why I rarely respond to such subjects.

I do know that anytime a prescription is filled, it's entered into a database. Who or what has access to that database can be the subject of alot of debate.

From the DEA website:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Under federal law, all businesses that import, export, manufacture, or distribute controlled substances; all health professionals licensed to dispense, administer, or prescribe them; and all pharmacies authorized to fill prescriptions must register with the DEA. Registrants must comply with regulatory requirements relating to drug security and recordkeeping.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Bottom line. I wouldn't lie on any government form. You just never know who's looking where. :rolleyes:
 
JeffDG said:
First off: Don't lie to the Feds. In addition to certificate revocation, they can certainly prosecute you criminally for intentionally lying to them. The government likes to keep lying as their exclusive right, and don't like it when others try doing it to them.
Click to expand...

And in addition to that (1001 isn't often exercised, though constantly threatened) the FAA may exercise the prerogative to assess significant civil fines in addition to revocation. That is their remedy when the airman has no valid certificate to be revoked.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Ever consider that when a Doctor prescribes a medication, even to someone without insurance, that the prescription is recorded into a database?

Ever hear of the DEA?
Click to expand...

True, but only for controlled substances. We (speaking as a former DEA'er) don't care about antibiotics, for instance (FDA might).
 
TMetzinger said:
True, but only for controlled substances. We (speaking as a former DEA'er) don't care about antibiotics, for instance (FDA might).
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Might very well be. But his part from the DEA website:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] and all pharmacies authorized to fill prescriptions must register with the DEA.

[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]All I know is there is alot of information gathered in these databases. How it's disseminated can make you wonder.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Let me clarify that I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of stuff medical, hence why I rarely respond to such subjects.

I do know that anytime a prescription is filled, it's entered into a database. Who or what has access to that database can be the subject of alot of debate.

From the DEA website:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Under federal law, all businesses that import, export, manufacture, or distribute controlled substances; all health professionals licensed to dispense, administer, or prescribe them; and all pharmacies authorized to fill prescriptions must register with the DEA. Registrants must comply with regulatory requirements relating to drug security and recordkeeping.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Bottom line. I wouldn't lie on any government form. You just never know who's looking where. :rolleyes:
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I believe that big chain pharmacies keep electronic records but I doubt that all small pharmacies keep any record other than the hand written prescription for non controlled substances. I do not advocate lying on a government form.
 
Gary F said:
I believe that big chain pharmacies keep electronic records but I doubt that all small pharmacies keep any record other than the hand written prescription for non controlled substances. I do not advocate lying on a government form.
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Actually, just when I was leaving we'd begun using digital signatures and an electronic system (similar to IACRA) for pharmacies to use. Pharma companies and Big pharmacy chains would have their internal systems automatically update the DEA, and smaller ones would use a web browser to do the same thing. I expect by now that paper records for this stuff are very few. I think they were using lower fees for the "digital" registrants to make it attractive.

Now, all that said, the larger pharmacy chains absolutely keep records of all prescriptions and use it to "add value" to the customers and reduce their liability by doing things like checking for interactions among prescribed drugs (so that your surgeon doesn't kill you by giving you something that will react badly with the stuff your GP prescribed that you never mentioned to the surgeon). So the data is available should an agency want to go through the process (subpeona or warrant, I'd guess) to look at it.

I expect Lynn might have some insights.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Last summer while at the Academy I was talking to one of the attorneys that works at MMAC, specifically CAMI.

I made a joke that must be an easy job, and he told me on average he (his office) does approximately 500 enforcements a year.

So just keep telling yourself "no one is looking". :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

500... How many of those came about 'out of the blue' due to routine database cross referencing? How many of them were instigated by some action or overt omission on the pilots part?
 
Henning said:
500... How many of those came about 'out of the blue' due to routine database cross referencing? How many of them were instigated by some action or overt omission on the pilots part?
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I'd guess 99.9% of them are for pilots that were dumb and only half-lied. Wherein a full lie would have them flying fine.:lol:
 
To answer the OP: The 8500 permission sheet gives the agency the right to pull your file. In fact what they do is rely on a TRW - like service (like a credit agency) which keeps track of your diagnosis codes. They can get them in minutes....IF insurance was involved.
 
bbchien said:
To answer the OP: The 8500 permission sheet gives the agency the right to pull your file. In fact what they do is rely on a TRW - like service (like a credit agency) which keeps track of your diagnosis codes. They can get them in minutes....IF insurance was involved.
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Doc, I thought that under HIPAA the permission wasn't the end of the process, but that anyone accessing the records must notify you every time they do it.

In other words, they have my permission on the form, but at the time they execute that permission, I'm supposed to get a notification from the contractor/service that pulled the information. (Even if it's in writing and takes a week to show up in the mail.)

Is the FAA exempt from that part of the HIPAA regulations?
 
denverpilot said:
Doc, I thought that under HIPAA the permission wasn't the end of the process, but that anyone accessing the records must notify you every time they do it.

In other words, they have my permission on the form, but at the time they execute that permission, I'm supposed to get a notification from the contractor/service that pulled the information. (Even if it's in writing and takes a week to show up in the mail.)

Is the FAA exempt from that part of the HIPAA regulations?
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IIRC, there are exceptions for government, law enforcement, and national security purposes.
 
wsuffa said:
IIRC, there are exceptions for government, law enforcement, and national security purposes.
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Yep, just as specified in the warrant, subpeona, or national security letter, the recipient is usually forbidden to inform anyone of the investigation in process.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I got a cold and bought some and had to give them my ID. I didn't fly when on the nasal decongestant though.
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FWIW, most if not all decongestants including the "real" stuff you have to sign for are OK to fly with in your system. The underlying symptoms, however may be a good reason to stay on the ground. I often take a decongestant before flying if I'm a little "stuffed up" from hay fever or the tail end of a cold, especially if I'm going to be up high for a long time as this tends to minimize or eliminate sinus headaches for me brought on by altitude. That said, it's always better to be safe than sorry.
 
denverpilot said:
Doc, I thought that under HIPAA the permission wasn't the end of the process, but that anyone accessing the records must notify you every time they do it.

In other words, they have my permission on the form, but at the time they execute that permission, I'm supposed to get a notification from the contractor/service that pulled the information. (Even if it's in writing and takes a week to show up in the mail.)

Is the FAA exempt from that part of the HIPAA regulations?
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Nate, HIPAA isn't about who can't have your data. It's about who CAN have your data. Governmental entities have a blank check on that one. The law is an embarassment.
 
bbchien said:
Nate, HIPAA isn't about who can't have your data. It's about who CAN have your data. Governmental entities have a blank check on that one. The law is an embarassment.
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We've been going through dealing with a medical company that utilizes our services.

The training has basically convinced the IT staff that we don't want their data ever touching our systems ever.

The audits and BS would be overwhelmingly stupid, time-consuming, and cost a lot of resources for little gain.

Best plan so far is to just keep the data away. Far away. Integration? No way. Keep those toxic records about your healthcare customers out of our systems and off our staff's screens. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
We've been going through dealing with a medical company that utilizes our services.

The training has basically convinced the IT staff that we don't want their data ever touching our systems ever.

The audits and BS would be overwhelmingly stupid, time-consuming, and cost a lot of resources for little gain.

Best plan so far is to just keep the data away. Far away. Integration? No way. Keep those toxic records about your healthcare customers out of our systems and off our staff's screens. ;)
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A-Men.
 
> How do they ... ?

>> They don't, unless ...

This might be changing. CAMI recently floated a procurement for a small compute
cluster. Dunno what they are gonna use it for ... but ... the config specified would
be dandy for data mining medical records. The clearing house for med insurance
records is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIB_Group,_Inc.
 
Nope. that cluster is assigned for acceptance of AME records via pdf files. It needs be isolated from the DIWS network for security reasons.
 
So does the FAA know everything about my history even if it wasnt reported on my form? Do they know I had strep throat in the third grade or do they just go off of what I report. I'm confused
 
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