How did they do it in the early days???

[Maxmosbey]

I was talking to my dad yesterday, and he learned how to fly just after WWII, in the late 40s. He learned in a J-3 Cub, which had nothing more than the basic VFR instruments. He told me that he and his instructor were flying under overcast skies, when the instructor took the controls and flew them up through the clouds until they were above them. He let my dad fly around for a while above the clouds, then the instructor took the controls, and brought them back down through them, and let my dad have the controls again.

This winter I read three or four books about WWI pilots and the pilots who flew the mail in the early days. They all talk about flying in the clouds, or climbing up through the clouds. It seems to me that they did quite well without much for instruments. They also climbed up to fifteen, and even twenty thousand feet, without oxygen, in open cockpits. How did they do it? I know that someone is going to say that they lost a lot of pilots, but the ones who wrote the books seemed to have survived.

 

[gprellwitz]

I was talking to my dad yesterday, and he learned how to fly just after WWII, in the late 40s. He learned in a J-3 Cub, which had nothing more than the basic VFR instruments. He told me that he and his instructor were flying under overcast skies, when the instructor took the controls and flew them up through the clouds until they were above them. He let my dad fly around for a while above the clouds, then the instructor took the controls, and brought them back down through them, and let my dad have the controls again.

This winter I read three or four books about WWI pilots and the pilots who flew the mail in the early days. They all talk about flying in the clouds, or climbing up through the clouds. It seems to me that they did quite well without much for instruments. They also climbed up to fifteen, and even twenty thousand feet, without oxygen, in open cockpits. How did they do it? I know that someone is going to say that they lost a lot of pilots, but the ones who wrote the books seemed to have survived.

Well you said it. They lost a LOT of pilots! Flying on minimal instruments in the clouds without training isn't guaranteed to get you killed, it just stacks the odds way too far in favor of that happening!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I was talking to my dad yesterday, and he learned how to fly just after WWII, in the late 40s. He learned in a J-3 Cub, which had nothing more than the basic VFR instruments. He told me that he and his instructor were flying under overcast skies, when the instructor took the controls and flew them up through the clouds until they were above them. He let my dad fly around for a while above the clouds, then the instructor took the controls, and brought them back down through them, and let my dad have the controls again.

This winter I read three or four books about WWI pilots and the pilots who flew the mail in the early days. They all talk about flying in the clouds, or climbing up through the clouds. It seems to me that they did quite well without much for instruments. They also climbed up to fifteen, and even twenty thousand feet, without oxygen, in open cockpits. How did they do it? I know that someone is going to say that they lost a lot of pilots, but the ones who wrote the books seemed to have survived.

Well, it is possible to fly instruments on nothing but airspeed and magnetic compass (sadistic CFII made me do it), but it's a b*tch. I'm glad I got to do it, though.

However, I was under the impression that back in the WWI days they didn't know much about how to fly on instruments, and that the standard technique to be used when you got stuck in the clouds, so that you wouldn't do a death spiral and overstress the airframe, was to enter a spin.

 

[tdager]

Different times, different breed, different mentality.

We live in the nanny-safety-state now. If you can get hurt, slap it with a sticker and extra layers of protection. If it is FUN and you can get hurt, ban it.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

If it isn't turbulent & you trim your plane well, it will fly straight for a while. Add power to climb and reduce power to go down. A few strategicly placed bits of yarn helped them out too- you can see the angle of the slipstream & see if it made sense for your flying.

I would not want to turn without instruments in clouds- it least with my skill set.

 

[Skip Miller]

the standard technique to be used when you got stuck in the clouds, so that you wouldn't do a death spiral and overstress the airframe, was to enter a spin.

ONLY if you knew or were reasonably certain that the bases were high enough to allow a visual recovery. Otherwise you were entering a 100% fatal maneuver on purpose... not fun.

-Skip

 

[Bob Bement]

I talked with a guy once that got out of control in the clouds. He and a couple of college buddys as he put it. They came out of the clouds upside down and 500 or so feet above the ground. He said it scared them nearly to death. I don't think he ever made that mistake again. Bob

 

[mikea]

The early aviators thought any competent pilot could fly through clouds by seat o' the pants. They had no idea of the physiology of spacial disorientation.

As has been said, a lot of early aviators ended up being very dead.

I suspect the ones who claimed that any good pilot could fly through a cloud either a) never tried it, or b) tried it about once, barely survived and ended up scared ta death, and kept it quiet that that he'd never do it again, not matter how macho the talk.

There's also a big difference between keeping the wings level flying straight ahead for a few seconds through a layer and staying in the soup for several minutes. The early pilot might have poked a nose in trying to climb through and drop back down while flying a straight line.

 

[rottydaddy]

Not condoning it, of course, but I've heard of pilots of open-cockpit jobs with no more than compass, airspeed and altimeter flying in clouds, usually just to climb or descend through a layer, by using what little sun they can see to stay oriented. They'd locate the disc of the sun, note its position relative to the nose and/or upper wing, and try to keep it there as they passed through the cloud.
This technique often was what was required in lieu of hood time for a pilot's license... before IFR was invented.

The craziest "blind flying" story I ever heard was Chichester's account of flying through storms at night in his Moth during his epic England-Australia trip... how he survived that I don't know.

 

[bsdunek]

Not condoning it, of course, but I've heard of pilots of open-cockpit jobs with no more than compass, airspeed and altimeter flying in clouds, usually just to climb or descend through a layer, by using what little sun they can see to stay oriented. They'd locate the disc of the sun, note its position relative to the nose and/or upper wing, and try to keep it there as they passed through the cloud.
This technique often was what was required in lieu of hood time for a pilot's license... before IFR was invented.

As I understand it, from some old guys, open cockpit is part of the solution. You learn to feel the relative wind and keep it centered, as well as listening to the sound of the wires. I agree that it would be pretty marginal.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I talked with a guy once that got out of control in the clouds. He and a couple of college buddys as he put it. They came out of the clouds upside down and 500 or so feet above the ground. He said it scared them nearly to death. I don't think he ever made that mistake again. Bob

I think your friend exaggerated. That's not recoverable at that altitude. About the time you realized you were out of the clouds, you'd be on the ground.