How dare they

[Richard]

How dare these entrepreneur types take bold steps to tread in territory which until now has been the sole domain of the govt? I have to laugh at the feeble attempts made by Raytheon, Lockheed, members of the US Congress, USAF, and NASA to form a public/govt consortium which has dumped obscene amounts of money into feasability studies of using portions of Vandenburg AFB as a space launch center.

Rutan, et al, represent an entire paradigm shift in the direction of this industry.

And now Nick has a new destination to be added to his list.
_________________________________________________


Starship Branson to take off from UFO central
by Dominic O'Connell

WE have lift-off. Sir Richard Branson has chosen the launch site for his new venture into space tourism.
The Virgin Galactic spacecraft is scheduled to take off in five years’ time from a site near Roswell, New Mexico, in a desert known for UFO legends and alleged alien autopsies.
Rich travellers who pay $200,000 (€169,000) for a ticket will be whisked 60 miles into the sky on the three-hour flights. Up to six passengers at a time will have 20 minutes in space, five minutes of it in a weightless state.
This week representatives from the New Mexico state government will visit Branson in London before the Virgin boss flies to America to announce the deal. The state is to invest €170m in the world’s first commercial space port and Branson has agreed to take a 20-year lease on the site.
Sources close to Branson said that talks for a space flight licence from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) were “going well”.
The stable, sunny weather around Roswell should guarantee 320 operational days a year. At first the craft will fly once a week but the goal is to fly once a day, which will dramatically reduce the ticket price.
The area of the space port occupies a special place for inter-galactic enthusiasts. The so-called “Roswell incident” of 1947 — supposedly a crash landing of a flying saucer that was covered up by the American government — has fascinated UFO researchers for nearly 60 years. Today the myth brings 500,000 tourists a year to the area.
In Ireland two businessman, Bill Cullen, the chairman of Renault, and Tom Higgins, the boss of Irish Psychics Live, are both claiming they will be the first Irish people to travel to space on Branson’s Virgin Galactic.
Cullen, the author of It’s a Long Way from Penny Apples, has claimed he was the first to sign a contract for the flight and to pay, but Higgins has argued that he made the first registered request to go aboard.
Cullen, has said he wants to raise money for charity, but Higgins is to be sponsored by his own company, Realm Communications. The controversial firm specialises in premium-rate phone line services and Higgins currently appears in adverts for some of these kitted out in a space outfit.
Several American states had vied to lure Branson since SpaceShipOne, a vehicle partly backed by the Virgin boss, became the first privately funded craft to make a flight into space in October last year.
New Mexico won the bidding by promising to invest the $200m and to give Virgin Galactic a tax break on the sales of its tickets. Exact details of the site are not yet known, but aerospace industry experts said that it would be located between Roswell and the White Sands missile testing range.
There has been no shortage of takers wishing to be among Branson’s first space travellers. Virgin Galactic has already taken £6.3m (€9.4m) in deposits and has 38,700 people registered to fly.
Celebrities who have signed up include William Shatner, the actor who played Captain Kirk in Star Trek, and Sigourney Weaver, who starred as Ripley in the Alien films.
The breakthrough for Branson came with his deal last year to use technology developed by Burt Rutan, the designer of SpaceShipOne. Rutan’s craft was carried aloft by an aircraft, then launched itself into space powered by a simple rocket motor. It solved the problem of re-entry into the atmosphere by changing the shape of its tail so that it “feathered” like a badminton shuttlecock.
The Roswell area will welcome the return of revolutionary aircraft after eking out UFO fictions for the past five decades to attract visitors. It was home to the only atomic bomber squadron in the world when it was hit by a violent thunderstorm in July 1947. The next morning a rancher stumbled across wreckage and strange shiny material which he could not bend or tear. The local newspaper published a report claiming the airfield had captured a “flying saucer”. Much later it was revealed that the debris had actually belonged to a high-altitude balloon being used to monitor Soviet nuclear tests.

 

[kellyo]

Something about this whole thing bugs me. Mostly I don't have $200k to try. Needless to say, being a space traveller was once left to the dedicated, motivated, and most qualified. Now, or soon enough, it seems anyone with a large enough wad of cash can go. Allbeit only 30 mins, and only 5 mins outside noticeable gravitational force.

I don't think they gotta worry about ever replacing the hobbs meter.

I change my mind also, if I had $200k, I wouldn't waste it on a discovery flight.

My $.02

 

[Richard]

I'm thinking of a neural implant and 3-D imagery in a Level D sim. How much would you pay for that?

If I had $200K disposable, maybe I'd spring for it but the doubt only 'cause it's so short in duration. If it were a couple days or longer I would definately do it.

Payload costs a bunch. To save money mebbe I could launch just my brain and then reinsert after the trip. My brain is not that heavy.

 

[SkyHog]

Something about this whole thing bugs me. Mostly I don't have $200k to try. Needless to say, being a space traveller was once left to the dedicated, motivated, and most qualified. Now, or soon enough, it seems anyone with a large enough wad of cash can go.

You know, I'll bet a lot of people said similar things about flying airplanes...

I can't wait until it becomes easier to get the training. I WILL add Spacecraft Ratings to my Certificate when they become available.

 

[Henning]

Something about this whole thing bugs me. Mostly I don't have $200k to try. Needless to say, being a space traveller was once left to the dedicated, motivated, and most qualified. Now, or soon enough, it seems anyone with a large enough wad of cash can go. Allbeit only 30 mins, and only 5 mins outside noticeable gravitational force.

I don't think they gotta worry about ever replacing the hobbs meter.

I change my mind also, if I had $200k, I wouldn't waste it on a discovery flight.

My $.02

Lots of people will though. You'd be amazed how many people spend that to charter a yacht for a week and barely spend 2 hrs on it while the shop and gamble ashore.

 

[fgcason]

How dare these entrepreneur types take bold steps to tread in territory which until now has been the sole domain of the govt?

The real picture is what's important here.

The gov't has heady ideas and great plans to talk about in front of crowds and in meetings...And a marginal funding base..And a safety committee that insists that they take no risks in an operation where the first step is to strap your pink derrier to the top of a big bomb and light it. If they want a zero risk operation, they're in the wrong business entirely. They should go into making toilet paper rolls or pencils or something safe like that.
After 33+ years of flight that, except when they were grounded, has not managed to go beyond low earth orbit and has had little motivation to do so. They are just now finally being allowed to admit that Apollo had the right idea so now they have to try to develop a new Apollo class vehicle. We should have people on Mars by now, not attempting to design a 40 year old vehicle that has already proven itself while we casually decomission another operational launch pad.

Rutan just wants to go to the moon. He wants to go now. He doesn't want to stand in line for 1000 years and patiently wait for some gov't agency to maybe say he can go. That's assuming they actually do go and don't turn the entire place into a museum with "Abandoned In Place" stenciled over everything. He's also smart enough and motivated enough to make a valid attempt at pulling it off without their help.

Space flight should be left solely to those who know what they're doing. IMO: Drone tourists have no place there regardless of their bank roll but the only way Rutan can pull it off is with a positive cash flow and he's not allowed to collect taxes. Branson is just giving Rutan a money base to fund his bigger plans.

I watched people walk on the moon. As in live pictures from the surface of the moon, real time, minus signal travel delay. I've also watched the same organization that sent them there whine and whine about how infinitely dangerous a servicing mission to the HST in low earth orbit is until it makes me violently ill. They do not give any impression that they're truly motivated to do what they were doing in the 1960's.

I say let the gov't keep doing whatever it wants AND in the meantime, get out of Rutan's way and let him do his thing because he's actually motivated to really try to do this.

 

[Richard]

Frank, you sure are passionate. And I happen to think you are right on.

You know, I'll bet a lot of people said similar things about flying airplanes...

I can't wait until it becomes easier to get the training. I WILL add Spacecraft Ratings to my Certificate when they become available.

Now there's some forward thinking....

 

[Missa]

I can't wait till they are flying eveyday and can charge a lot less for the ticket. Once it gets to about $5000 I'll work on getting my reservation. (ok, I'll start thinking about it around $10K)

I agree with Nick, I'd pay even more to get the spacecraft rating.

I also disagee with Frank about the drone tourists on a space flight. The problem with the goverment funding of a program is that it's hard to keep the imagnation of the populace with pictures and stories. It leads to apathy by the general public about the program and then to questions as to why they are funding the program through their taxes. If you can capture the pubics imagnation by tourists space flight and fuel their enthusiam for space flight, the public will be more intrested in funding the programs.

Missa

 

[Don Jones]

I love all the Roswell, UFO hype. The actual site is The New Mexico Space Port which is located some 130 miles due west of Roswell and 40 or so miles north of Las Cruces and to the south of T or C. It sits smack dab under R-5111 C & D. The local papers announced that Virgin Atlantic had signed on to carry on launch operations from the new Space Port last week. Ground breaking on the facilities are to start next month.
Don

 

[mikea]

We need Senator Santorum to propose the new law that prohibits the goverment from competing with privatly held space agencies.

 

[fgcason]

I also disagee with Frank about the drone tourists on a space flight. The problem with the goverment funding of a program is that it's hard to keep the imagnation of the populace with pictures and stories. It leads to apathy by the general public about the program and then to questions as to why they are funding the program through their taxes. If you can capture the pubics imagnation by tourists space flight and fuel their enthusiam for space flight, the public will be more intrested in funding the programs.

Drone tourists have no business up there until we figure out how to do space flight beyond marginal ability. Space flight compared to winged manned flight got as far as about 1906 then has since fallen back to about March 1904. You have to get past the experimentally experimental phase before you start hauling tourist cargo. You get past the experimental phase with visions beyond political infighting and short term profit margins, using motivated top quality designers, test pilots and scientists, not by placating CEO Bob and structuring part of the mission around his wallet and personal needs. Make him wait 20 years then haul him and 50 of his best friends up to an orbiting hotel that's designed for him.

They can't keep the public interest up because it's all pushed into the background noise if it makes it that far. The marketing department dropped their banana. The only time you see or hear about NASA in the public is when a disaster happens or someone is trying to create a scam. Out of all the shuttle flights, how many did you hear about and of those, how many were front page and had 3-4 hour TV slots that did not involve little pieces of spaceship scattered all over the place? It's just like GA.

People are interested in spaceflight. They just don't realize it until you sit them down and tell them it's still happening then they're slobbering all over the pictures and ideals.

My take on it anyway...


Speaking of which, I'm off to the Mars Rovers and Cassini stuff that so few know about to see what today's adventures have discovered...

 

[judypilot]

I'm with SkyHog! I missed out on astronaut training because I was a girl and then too old. By golly, they're not gonna deny me this.

Judy

 

[Missa]

Drone tourists have no business up there until we figure out how to do space flight beyond marginal ability. <snip> You have to get past the experimentally experimental phase before you start hauling tourist cargo.

You get past the experimental phase with visions beyond political infighting and short term profit margins, using motivated top quality designers, test pilots and scientists, not by placating CEO Bob and structuring part of the mission around his wallet and personal needs. Make him wait 20 years then haul him and 50 of his best friends up to an orbiting hotel that's designed for him.

Isn't that what SpaceShipOne and the X prize did? Let's see we have a non government developed vehicle that can get to 'space' reliably (twice in two weeks with pilot + weight of two passengers)? Did we wait to take 'drone tourists' on aircraft until transoceanic flight in a 747 was possible? Nope. I believe the first passenger was taken aloft within a year of the first flight. They did several test flights on SS1 then performed the flights required for the X prize. The craft is PROVEN, it works for it's design intent. What additional testing do you need before you no longer consider flight in vehicles of the same design as SS1 experimental?

It's not like SS1 is meant to go into orbit in real space, it's meant to touch space. It doesn't even have CO2 scrubbers because the flight isn't suppose to last long enough to need them. You get sealed in ride up, get launched, hit the rocket, do a loop, touch space and return. It's one step into 'space' and if people will pay for a ride why not? It will provide the funding to make step two. The first 'drone tourists' on aircraft didn't go anywhere further then around the pea patch, this is the same thing just in space. Step two (or maybe three) will be to actually fly to a destination like a space hotel.

I think you're selling Rutan, Scaled Composites and even Virgin a bit short by implying that they are not top quality designers and are only motivated by short term profits. They are striving to get past the political infighting to see their dream of routine space flight by trying to make a profit and be able to self fund their vision. The first thing the Wrights did was manufacture and sell their first successful design, even though it couldn't cross great distances. How is this different?

They can't keep the public interest up because it's all pushed into the background noise if it makes it that far. The marketing department dropped their banana. The only time you see or hear about NASA in the public is when a disaster happens or someone is trying to create a scam. Out of all the shuttle flights, how many did you hear about and of those, how many were front page and had 3-4 hour TV slots that did not involve little pieces of spaceship scattered all over the place? It's just like GA.

I agree that the NASA PR guys are not being successful in keeping people interested but it is a very hard job. People lose interest so quickly and if it's not sensational the media isn't interested but that’s more of a commentary on the state of our society not NASA. We have a lot more problems to fix socially (if we can at all) before we will be capable of an altruistic space program.

Missa

 

[Richard]

I can't wait till they are flying eveyday and can charge a lot less for the ticket. Once it gets to about $5000 I'll work on getting my reservation. (ok, I'll start thinking about it around $10K)

I agree with Nick, I'd pay even more to get the spacecraft rating.

I also disagee with Frank about the drone tourists on a space flight. The problem with the goverment funding of a program is that it's hard to keep the imagnation of the populace with pictures and stories. It leads to apathy by the general public about the program and then to questions as to why they are funding the program through their taxes. If you can capture the pubics imagnation by tourists space flight and fuel their enthusiam for space flight, the public will be more intrested in funding the programs.

Missa

I don't agree. Just look at aviation. Flying had it's hey day with the general public. It was a badge of courage to have flown. Then it became a badge of the elite. Even still, it was the bee's knees to book a passage on an aeroplane. But the magical qualities of flying which were present then are still present today, it hasn't changed. What has changed is the public's perception, now they just look at it as a mode of transportation. Nothing more than a bus and something to complain about.

Also, with Rutan and others leading the charge, there will be less need to get the public (taxpayer) to agree to fund the project. I see a commercial aspect of what Rutan is doing. He and others following after him will develop the technology and the govt will have no choice but to let contracts out to pvt enterprise for lofting payload. The govt then assumes the roll of paper contractor.

But that only acknowledges govt may have a continuing role in space programs, time will tell if the govt even remains in the program. The whole industry could be handled by the pvt sector with govt assuming a role of overseer, much like the FAA today.

BTW: the first paying pax were in the middle '20s when a couple patent attorneys in Chicago needed to be in San Francisco in a hurry. They paid $400 each to sit in a Boeing Model 40 mail carrier. Incidently, these pax were the first profit Boeing made on a mail route.