Hidden Treasure - Help me identify this biplane

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Midlothian, TX
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3Green
I recently had my kitchen remodeled; the contractor came by earlier this week to do some final touch up work, and knowing I was a pilot told me about this other project he'd just finished, and the unfinished homebuilt biplane this lady has stored in her basement and garage. Her now-deceased husband, a master woodworker and American Airlines mechanic, had built all four wings and welded up the fuselage, tail feathers and landing gear. She is finally ready to 'let the project go' (it reminded her of her husband), and was about to list it on CraigsList when he convinced her to wait til he spoke with me.

I went over to view it Friday night, and it turns out I know the lady from another context, so I have a good shot at getting this project, if it's something I wish to pursue. Problem is, the plans are buried somewhere in the garage, and I can't tell at first glance what it is we have here... any ideas, looking at the pictures posted below? She showed me some small photos where he had it fully assembled in the yard (engine is no longer with the project or included, he disposed of it some time ago). From the cars in the background, I bet we can date the project, too. What would be a reasonable starting offer?

https://picasaweb.google.com/troy.whistman/HiddenTreasure?authkey=Gv1sRgCNrLz4TumYzNUg#
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I went over to view it Friday night, and it turns out I know the lady from another context, so I have a good shot at getting this project, if it's something I wish to pursue. Problem is, the plans are buried somewhere in the garage, and I can't tell at first glance what it is we have here... any ideas, looking at the pictures posted below?https://picasaweb.google.com/troy.whistman/HiddenTreasure?authkey=Gv1sRgCNrLz4TumYzNUg#
Click to expand...

Looks like it could be a Pitts.
 
I tend to agree with Roncachamp based on the shape of the rudder/vertical stabilizer and upper wing. Google images for "Pitts"
 
roncachamp said:
Looks like it could be a Pitts.
Click to expand...

Cap'n Jack said:
I tend to agree with Roncachamp based on the shape of the rudder/vertical stabilizer and upper wing. Google images for "Pitts"
Click to expand...

Ooooh, looks like you are right! I was having trouble finding anything with the same strut / cabane arrangement, but this looks close to this S2-A.

My interest is suddenly more piqued. If she can't find the plans with the serial number, is the project worthless? I suppose I could buy plans, if they are still available.
 
Funny that the other two old pictures of the assembled fuselage, as well as the ones I took of the fuselage in the hangar, don't have the diagonal fuselage cabane struts visible in this photo; the current state of the fuselage only has the two inverted V's...
 
TangoWhiskey said:
If she can't find the plans with the serial number, is the project worthless?
Click to expand...

The project wouldn't be WORTHLESS, I don't thing. If you figure out exactly what the project is, you could contact that manufacturer, if it still exists, and explain to them what is going on, in other words, the original owner/builder died, and they could probably help with the paperwork issues.

BTW, the plans serial number doesn't have anything to do with the ultimate airplane serial number. That is typically assigned by the builder.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
The project wouldn't be WORTHLESS, I don't thing. If you figure out exactly what the project is, you could contact that manufacturer, if it still exists, and explain to them what is going on, in other words, the original owner/builder died, and they could probably help with the paperwork issues.

BTW, the plans serial number doesn't have anything to do with the ultimate airplane serial number. That is typically assigned by the builder.
Click to expand...

Thanks Greg. I've emailed Steen Aero and we'll see what they have to say. I really think it's a Skybolt S(tandard).
 
TangoWhiskey said:
My interest is suddenly more piqued. If she can't find the plans with the serial number, is the project worthless? I suppose I could buy plans, if they are still available.
Click to expand...

Serial number is irrelevant. What would be good would be some kind of document stating that what you have so far was amateur built for the appropriate reasons.

Plans would be handy to finish it up with, but you may find those "used" somewhere if push comes to shove. Or you could just make it up as you go along at this point...

Only about 90% of the work remains to be done on it.
 
Skybolt or Stits seems the most likely, except for the cabane struts. Both designs have an inverted-V fore and aft, like the unknown plane, but both also have tubing welded diagonally between the pair. This airplane doesn't have those. Maybe they were going to be added later, but why...it'd have to have been a lot easier to weld them in at same time as the others, before going on to hanging an engine on it.

Oddly, there IS one picture that shows the diagonals. But it looks older than the ones that don't have them....and the plane is missing some parts.

The only other thought was whether the diagonal struts are bolted in, instead of welded. This would make sense if they included a threaded area for rigging adjustment, but the welded inverted-Vees would probably prevent that.

Here's a shot of a completed Skybolt fuselage:
skybolt_fuselage_0032-640.jpg


Other than the cabanes, it looks pretty close...right down to the "hoops" in front of the vertical stabilizer and the standoffs for the stringers.

The missing diagonals kind of bug me, though...that and the tubing size seems a lot bigger in the above photo. The trouble is, the cabane configuration doesn't match any other common designs, either....

Ron Wanttaja
 
Thanks for your message Ron... I'll try to get a closer look at it (fuselage was hanging in the rafters) to see what's up with the cabane diagonals.
 
Christen Eagle?

ac15_christen_eagle.jpg


Or is the rudder shape wrong?

Dan
 
Because of the age of the project: Smith Mini-Plane?
Looks like a 4 cylinder engine, Continental?
Is the engine still there?
50% done, 90% to go.
Dave
 
d.grimm said:
Because of the age of the project: Smith Mini-Plane?
Looks like a 4 cylinder engine, Continental?
Is the engine still there?
50% done, 90% to go.
Dave
Click to expand...
That does look like a Continental, which probably reduces the chance that it's a Skybolt.

I'm inclined away from it being a Smith Miniplane, as all the Smiths I know of are single-seaters and this looks like it's a two-seater. Ditto Baby Great Lakes.

Here's some other common homebuilt biplanes and the features that don't seem to match:

Great Lakes: Cabane struts
Skyote: Cabane struts, single-seater
Kelly-D: Front cockpit between cabane struts (although the cabanes look about right). The general shape doesn't seem right, either.
Wichawk: Side-by-side seating
Starduster/Acroduster: Cabane struts
EAA biplane: Cabane struts
Rose Parakeet: Size, cabane struts
Knight Twister: Size, cabane struts
Boredom Fighter: Single-seat, size
Hatz: Cabane struts

The other option is that it's an antique being restored rather than a homebuilt. Most US designs were made for much bigger engines, and, again, the cabane struts don't seem to match for planes like the Stampe, Jungmann, and Moth series.

Ron Wanttaja
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Thanks for your message Ron... I'll try to get a closer look at it (fuselage was hanging in the rafters) to see what's up with the cabane diagonals.
Click to expand...

The could be removable to allow the gas tank to go in. My brothers "Pitts" has one diagonal that can be removed.
 
From Steen Aero:

There is only one Skybolt and you have one.
Steen Aero has complete Skybolt Plans available for $165.00.

Let us know how we can help. Thanks.

Kind Regards,
David
Click to expand...

I've decided not to pursue this lady's project. If anybody else is interested, let me know and I'll put you in contact with her. Project is in North Central Texas, DFW area.
 
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