Hey Michigan people!

[EdFred]

I'm seeing quite a few people on here from MI. Although, I think I'm the only one here from the west side. How about a PoA flyin' somewhere? Suggestions?

 

[Missa]

There are several wandering Babes comming on here from MI. There is a MI Babe-in scheduled for the sping opener of pancake season. (24th at Owosso)

If you want to coincide with that your welcome to.

Missa

 

[T Bone]

There are several wandering Babes comming on here from MI. There is a MI Babe-in scheduled for the sping opener of pancake season. (24th at Owosso)

If you want to coincide with that your welcome to.

Missa

Any further info on this? (I really should stop with the pancakes, I could stand to lose about 5 gallons of fuel.... ). Sounds like fun!

Anyway, Air Nav shows it as 49 NM from 1D2 (figures.....). So, maybe I'd go to Lansing or somewhere first, so I can log XC time.

I need a new sectional. I assume the new one has Owosso's new designation of KRNP? (Mine that expired April 14th lists it as 5D3)....

 

[poadeleted4]

Hey Ed,
You aren't the only West Michigan PoA poster. The Greenville Area Aviation Association(GAAA) is planning to attend the Owosso(KRNP formerly 5D3) Pancake Breakfast on April 24th(7:00-10:30am EDT).

I resurrected the GAAA this year and recruited 43 members. Unfortunately, I was elected President and now must chair our monthly meetings. The Owosso Pancake Breakfast is our first Fly-Out event. We are also planning other activities for this summer and fall. I'll keep you posted on the future events.
Anyone is welcome to join the GAAA. Heck, Hastings(9D9) is a sister airport to Greenville(6D6). Just invert 6D6 and you get 9D9 and vice-versa!

Hope to see all of you at Owosso. I'll attach a photo of my airplane, N116RC, Commander 114, White/Maroon.

Gary

 

[gismo]

Anything scheduled for Memorial Day weekend? I expect I'll be in Bellaire then.

 

[EdFred]

Anything scheduled for Memorial Day weekend? I expect I'll be in Bellaire then.

I go the U.P. on Memorial Day Weekend, July 4 Weekend , Labor Day Weekend, and a few other assorted weekends during the summer. Best I could do is stop in Bellaire on Friday after work.

 

[gismo]

I go the U.P. on Memorial Day Weekend, July 4 Weekend , Labor Day Weekend, and a few other assorted weekends during the summer. Best I could do is stop in Bellaire on Friday after work.

Given that I have Monday off, I expect I'll be flying in late Friday or early Saturday. Where do you go in the U.P.? Perhaps we could meet up somewhere on Sat or Sun?

 

[EdFred]

Given that I have Monday off, I expect I'll be flying in late Friday or early Saturday. Where do you go in the U.P.? Perhaps we could meet up somewhere on Sat or Sun?

Right across the highway from 6Y9. It is closed right now, but we are working with the county to buy it from the state and get it reopened. Not a place you'd go in with the Baron. If it is not open by then I fly into LNL on the WI-MI border. And that is a great place to fly in. Lodge/Restaurant/Golf Course all on the premesis.

I am going to be in FCM in a few weeks - you didn't forget did ya?

 

[Missa]

Any further info on this? (I really should stop with the pancakes, I could stand to lose about 5 gallons of fuel.... ). Sounds like fun!

Anyway, Air Nav shows it as 49 NM from 1D2 (figures.....). So, maybe I'd go to Lansing or somewhere first, so I can log XC time.

I need a new sectional. I assume the new one has Owosso's new designation of KRNP? (Mine that expired April 14th lists it as 5D3)....

All the info I got is on the MDOT web site...
http://www.mdot.state.mi.us/aero/calendar/dp.cfm

And since your at 1D2... want to give me a ride??? save me the rental cost... : )

Missa

 

[One Short]

Right across the highway from 6Y9. It is closed right now, but we are working with the county to buy it from the state and get it reopened.

Ed,

What happened to close it? I noticed they left it out of this years MI directory. I'm trying to land at all the public use airports in MI. I've got 7 left and that was one of them. If you get it reopened, can you let me know.
Thanks

Barb Miller

 

[EdFred]

Ed,

What happened to close it? I noticed they left it out of this years MI directory. I'm trying to land at all the public use airports in MI. I've got 7 left and that was one of them. If you get it reopened, can you let me know.
Thanks

Barb Miller

There wasn't a lof of use there. Maybe 2 landings a year. And there was a fatal 2 years ago. Someone really botched everything up. I was talking with people who watched the guy come in, and he didn't even touch down in the first 1/3 or even the first 1/2 of the runway. The grass hadn't been cut in a couple weeks (the "manager" didn't really do his job - but took the money from the state) and then the pilot forgot how to fly when behind the power curve. Stalled it, 1/2 turn to the left and planted it vertically. With the grass as long as it was, he could have stopped. I've walked the runway a bunch of times, and I still don't see how he could have possibly botched it.

Don't worry, if we get it opened and rolled, we're going to be doing some sort of fly in and I'll be announcing it wherever I can. Not sure if it will be pancakes, or burgers and dogs, but we're going to try and do something to get people to use it more. There's a great little cafe right across the street. Some people don't like a 2000' grass strip, but to the east there's no trees for a good 200-300 yards, it's all scrub, and then a road, so there's no need to crowbar the arrival. I might have more information tomorrow on this. My parents were up there this weekend and may have talked with the county, who was supposed to have done a survey on it to see what they thought needed to be spent to get it open. Which, in my opinion should only be the donation my company is making, and some rolling of the runway. Optimistically I can't see why it couldn't be open for public use by Memorial Day.

 

[azure]

I need a new sectional. I assume the new one has Owosso's new designation of KRNP? (Mine that expired April 14th lists it as 5D3)....

It does. It also has both the new designator for Troy-Oakland (VLL) and its new AWOS frequency.

Liz

 

[T Bone]

It does. It also has both the new designator for Troy-Oakland (VLL) and its new AWOS frequency.

Liz

Thanks! I'll pick one up tomorrow.... (might do a short flight too).

And since your at 1D2... want to give me a ride??? save me the rental cost... : )

Not sure how I'm going yet. My buddies Lancair is out at OZW. He's thinking about going, and I might ride with him. If not, I'll probably grab a 152 and head for Lansing first (want to build XC) and maybe Flint or Davison to visit my folks after (they've not yet seen me fly). Touch base with me late in the week and I should know more on the schedule.
And if I remember reading right, Happy Birthday!

 

[Missa]

Ed,

What happened to close it? I noticed they left it out of this years MI directory. I'm trying to land at all the public use airports in MI. I've got 7 left and that was one of them. If you get it reopened, can you let me know.
Thanks

Barb Miller

Does the 7 count VLL? You know if you have it in your log as 7D2 it doesn't count anymore...

Missa

 

[Missa]

Thanks! I'll pick one up tomorrow.... (might do a short flight too).



Not sure how I'm going yet. My buddies Lancair is out at OZW. He's thinking about going, and I might ride with him. If not, I'll probably grab a 152 and head for Lansing first (want to build XC) and maybe Flint or Davison to visit my folks after (they've not yet seen me fly). Touch base with me late in the week and I should know more on the schedule.
And if I remember reading right, Happy Birthday!

Gee thanks! :cheerio: It was a good B-day.

So do you rent out of 1D2? How are those planes? I've been meaning to do a check out so I can rent there on the weekends... I still haven't done it yet.

Are you trying to build XC time for the instrument? So am I... and if you want ot build any of it under the hood, let me know... we can swap saftey pilot time.

Missa

 

[T Bone]

So do you rent out of 1D2? How are those planes? I've been meaning to do a check out so I can rent there on the weekends... I still haven't done it yet.

How are they? Well, old, somewhat beat up, well maintained, safe and... cheap! The 6 152's are 59.50 wet, the 2 172's are 74.50 wet, I think the PA 28 180 is the same, though it's down for an engine, and the 182? I'm not certain... 100 +or-....

Are you trying to build XC time for the instrument? So am I... and if you want ot build any of it under the hood, let me know... we can swap saftey pilot time.

Yes, that's my intent. Lots of time to log, so I figure anything close, I'll extend to XC by going further. Thing is, (not commonly known I don't think) while both pilots can log PIC while one is under the hood (in some circumstances) only ONE gets to log it as Xc. I thought about this and have AOPA's interpretation in writing (verbally, their initial reaction to my question was yes, you can. But when the question was put in writing, they responded negative... twice in fact!). But this seems like a good subject for another post in one of the training forums....

 

[Missa]

How are they? Well, old, somewhat beat up, well maintained, safe and... cheap! The 6 152's are 59.50 wet, the 2 172's are 74.50 wet, I think the PA 28 180 is the same, though it's down for an engine, and the 182? I'm not certain... 100 +or-....

I need to call them today, the planes at Burz are booked for Sunday so unless I can talk Dave or Razor into giving me a ride I have to get one of their planes or go land based....

Yes, that's my intent. Lots of time to log, so I figure anything close, I'll extend to XC by going further. Thing is, (not commonly known I don't think) while both pilots can log PIC while one is under the hood (in some circumstances) only ONE gets to log it as Xc. I thought about this and have AOPA's interpretation in writing (verbally, their initial reaction to my question was yes, you can. But when the question was put in writing, they responded negative... twice in fact!). But this seems like a good subject for another post in one of the training forums....

Humm, that's intresting... but since I just like being up in the plane and want to have people who will saftey pilot for me I don't care too much about the logging aspect.

Missa

 

[gismo]

Right across the highway from 6Y9. It is closed right now, but we are working with the county to buy it from the state and get it reopened. Not a place you'd go in with the Baron. If it is not open by then I fly into LNL on the WI-MI border. And that is a great place to fly in. Lodge/Restaurant/Golf Course all on the premesis.

I am going to be in FCM in a few weeks - you didn't forget did ya?

Nope, but I don't remember the exact date. I think you said first or second weekend in May. I thought I put it in my calendar, but it's not there.

 

[gismo]

Thing is, (not commonly known I don't think) while both pilots can log PIC while one is under the hood (in some circumstances) only ONE gets to log it as Xc.

You can both log the flight as long as the pilot not flying (PNF) is designated the PIC (must be current, endoresed as required, etc) and the pilot flying (PF) is wearing a view limiting device (vmc or imc). The hood makes the second pilot a required crewmember which can be logged as SIC or PIC depending on who is the actual PIC (filed the flight plan, by mutual agreement etc). Watch out for insurance and rental agreement limitations on who can be legal PIC though.

The PNF/PIC can only log the time when the PF is wearing a hood and since the PF isn't likely to land with a hood in use, the PNF cannot log the landing. Furthermore since most definitions of x/c involve a landing somewhere, the PNF won't be able to log the x/c either.

 

[T Bone]

You can both log the flight as long as the pilot not flying (PNF) is designated the PIC (must be current, endoresed as required, etc) and the pilot flying (PF) is wearing a view limiting device (vmc or imc). The hood makes the second pilot a required crewmember which can be logged as SIC or PIC depending on who is the actual PIC (filed the flight plan, by mutual agreement etc). Watch out for insurance and rental agreement limitations on who can be legal PIC though.

The PNF/PIC can only log the time when the PF is wearing a hood and since the PF isn't likely to land with a hood in use, the PNF cannot log the landing. Furthermore since most definitions of x/c involve a landing somewhere, the PNF won't be able to log the x/c either.

100% correct! Now, care to discuss high performance, complex endorsement status? (according to one well read individual, as well as others, as long as it is single engine land, which the safety pilot is rated for, he may logg PIC without those endorsements, even if the plane fits those configurations....)

 

[azure]

100% correct! Now, care to discuss high performance, complex endorsement status? (according to one well read individual, as well as others, as long as it is single engine land, which the safety pilot is rated for, he may logg PIC without those endorsements, even if the plane fits those configurations....)

That's my understanding too... if you are rated SEL, you can log as PIC time all time during which you are sole manipulator of the controls in a SEL aircraft, even if you don't have the endorsements to legally ACT as PIC (e.g. high performance and/or complex). That includes the dual time with your checkout CFI - as strange as it may seem.

Liz

 

[gismo]

100% correct! Now, care to discuss high performance, complex endorsement status? (according to one well read individual, as well as others, as long as it is single engine land, which the safety pilot is rated for, he may logg PIC without those endorsements, even if the plane fits those configurations....)

If you're asking whether a pilot can log PIC while acting as a safety pilot (not actually flying the plane) without the endorsements needed to act as PIC in the airplane being used, the answer is clearly NO. As a safety pilot you cannot log PIC unless you are acting as PIC and you can't legally do that without the required endorsements and currency.

OTOH you can log PIC as the sole manipulator without any needed endorsements or currency (or even a medical AFaIK) as long as you have the required rating WRT category, class, and type if a type rating applies. In this case you aren't acting as PIC, just flying the plane with someone else as the actual PIC (and not logging it).

 

[azure]

100% correct! Now, care to discuss high performance, complex endorsement status? (according to one well read individual, as well as others, as long as it is single engine land, which the safety pilot is rated for, he may logg PIC without those endorsements, even if the plane fits those configurations....)

Oops.... obviously I only QUOTED the question, but didn't read it very carefully... Lance is right, the safety pilot can only log PIC if (s)he is also ACTING as PIC, which is not legal without the endorsements. If the pilot flying (PF) has the endorsements and the safety pilot doesn't, the PF is the acting PIC and the only one who can log PIC time.

If both pilots are rated ASEL and the PF does not have the endorsements but the SP does, then I believe the SP can act as PIC and both of them can log as PIC time the time during which the PF is under the hood.

That will teach me to try to post when I'm at work doing a half dozen things at the same time...

Liz

 

[One Short]

Does the 7 count VLL? You know if you have it in your log as 7D2 it doesn't count anymore...

Missa

Oh, Oh! Make that 8 more.

Barb