Here is a question for all of you.....

Aztec Driver

Line Up and Wait
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Mar 7, 2005
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Display name:
Bryon
...... and no looking it up before hand either.

Without looking it up, what are the limits of P-40, the prohibited airspace around Camp David,
A. When it is "active"?
B. When it is not "active"?

Had an interesting charter flight for airplane parts thru the night last night from KMDT to KHXD. I had planned to go to MRB to skirt around the ADIZ, and then found out my path would take me through the P-40, which I told the controller that I would go to the west of it since that is what they always like. He said, nah, just go direct HXD, since I was now in a position to miss the ADIZ. That path would take us straight thru the middle of P-40.

Guess how it ends......
 
The little bit I recall was there is a primary area that is always active then there is a surrounding, extended area that is active when the president is on the premises.
 
From memory...

The core P-40 area is always "active" since it's a "Prohibited," not "Restricted" area. It extends from surface to 5000 MSL and as it's a P-area, nobody's allowed in but Marine One and its partners. Stacked above it to 17,999 MSL is the Restricted area (from memory, R-4008) of the same diameter which is also always "active" but through which Potomac Approach and Washington Center may clear you (either VFR or IFR) when the big guy isn't there. In addition, the "expanded P-40" (actually, a TFR) goes out to the whited-out area and up to 17,999 when the Prez is at Camp David, and that is a total no-fly zone.
 
P-40 is always active - up to 4999
R-4009 is always active - up to 12500, but you can (and many do) get clearances through the R area when the Prez is not in residence.

Then there's the TFR - An inner 5 NM no-fly zone, and an outer zone which you can fly through if in contact with ATC. From the Notam:
A. Aircraft operations are permitted within the airspace between 5 NM radius and 10 NM radius, provided the following conditions are met:
1) Be on an active IFR or VFR flight plan with a discrete code assigned by ATC.
2) Remain in two-way radio communications with ATC.
3) Flights within this area are for ingress, egress and transit only. No loitering.
4) All aircraft departing from private airports/air fields must be on a heading away from the center of the P-40 / R-4009 airspace.
 
...... and no looking it up before hand either.
Why not? If you are going to be flying in the area of special use airspace, isn't "looking it up before hand" part of normal preflight planning?
 
If you're flying anywhere near DC or Baltimore airspace you had better care or some nice helicopters will guide you to a caring calibration session.
The only way Greg's likely to fly into the DC area is in the right seat of a B777 with a Part 121 carrier's name on the tail, and in that case, he just does what the controller says and it's all OK. And even if he screws up, it's the Captain's fault.:D
 
The only way Greg's likely to fly into the DC area is in the right seat of a B777 with a Part 121 carrier's name on the tail, and in that case, he just does what the controller says and it's all OK. And even if he screws up, it's the Captain's fault.:D

Ahh.. well then I suppose he don't care too much..

Though I file anytime I going that way, for similar reasons.
 
...... and no looking it up before hand either.

Without looking it up, what are the limits of P-40, the prohibited airspace around Camp David,
A. When it is "active"?
B. When it is not "active"?

Had an interesting charter flight for airplane parts thru the night last night from KMDT to KHXD. I had planned to go to MRB to skirt around the ADIZ, and then found out my path would take me through the P-40, which I told the controller that I would go to the west of it since that is what they always like. He said, nah, just go direct HXD, since I was now in a position to miss the ADIZ. That path would take us straight thru the middle of P-40.

Guess how it ends......

Meh, who cares, it's way over there to the right somewhere...

Me, if I were PIC? Hell no, I'm not goin' there, even if the controller tells me to, lest I get a visit from some F-16's. (Did you at least get pictures? ;))
 
Why not? If you are going to be flying in the area of special use airspace, isn't "looking it up before hand" part of normal preflight planning?

Yes, if you are flying in the area, not flying on the web board. And I THOUGHT I knew the answer to this, but apparently I did not. My planning in the past just included avoiding the area completely. This may have changed from before, as I thought that the area was a prohibited area up to FL180. That may have been shortly after 9/11.

.... the rest of the story.
I queried the controller twice to verify his position on the area. I then dialed direct and flew straight through the heart and on to my destination. Kind of uneventful, no Blackhawks, no scrambled jets, no yelling at me on 121.5. Personally, I was OK with going around it, as it would have only added a minute or so to my trip, but curiosity won me over. The only thing I saw was a lighted tower in the middle with a red glow around it. And I also looked it up to make sure. The controller was wrong, but it made no difference, I was higher than the proper altitude. The controller said it was up to 4000, but Ron has it exact.

Just another lesson learned as we continue.
 
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