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bstratt

bstratt

Cleared for Takeoff
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Feb 23, 2005
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1,299
Location
St. Charles, IL
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Canuck
I have a loan secured by a 1973 Cessna 421B Golden Eagle, engine overhaul in April/05 with 37 hours since then to end of September.

I have no idea what this plane is but the guy is trying to tell me its worth $286,000. I have requested copy of the last annual and a full listing of avionics which I haven't received yet.

Any ideas/comments?
 
bstratt said:
Thanks Dave, that did help. I wasn't even aware it was a twin!
Click to expand...

It's a fairly popular "cabin class" pressurized twin with geared engines that some pilots have trouble making TBO with. IIRC the overhaul is something like $60k each engine so low time engines probably add quite a bit of value assuming they were good overhauls.
 
Barry,

I can get you the name and number of a dealer who specializes in 421's if you need it. I'm sure he can give a reasonable value off the top of his head.
 
Do you mean they are applying for a loan and want to use the airplane or somehow this loan ended up in your lap?
just idle curiosity!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Do you mean they are applying for a loan and want to use the airplane or somehow this loan ended up in your lap?
just idle curiosity!
Click to expand...

In my lap. The guy is behind in his payments. There's a lot that doesn't make any sense about the file as the previous account manager knew nothing about planes. The file states that "the" engine was overhauled last April for $37,000. I have asked for a full copy of the last annual, total hours on plane, full list of avionics as well as proof of insurance (probably important as I'm now told the plane is in Mexico).
 
gibbons said:
Barry,

I can get you the name and number of a dealer who specializes in 421's if you need it. I'm sure he can give a reasonable value off the top of his head.
Click to expand...

Thanks Chip, I may give you an email but right now I'm short of info.
 
bstratt said:
In my lap.
Click to expand...


mexico, ow. I've really never understood using aircraft as collateral or even loaning on one because by their very nature they are prone to disappearing!

Well if you foreclose, can you call it stolen and get the insurance?
If not, we can round up a gang and go retrieve it; Henning - you in!?
Say N number, Barry - we can start searching on flightaware!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
If not, we can round up a gang and go retrieve it; Henning - you in!?
Say N number, Barry - we can start searching on flightaware!
Click to expand...

LOL!!:)

At the moment I'm still trying to restructure something that makes sense with the debtor. I'll keep you guys in mind though!
 
First, someone should have had a formal appraisal made on the airplane before the loan was issued. Do you have a copy of that? If not, you can always get the plane appraised at this time -- http://www.plane-values.com will get you in touch with and NAAA-certified appraiser.

Second, the engines on a C-421 are bloody expensive to overhaul, and $37K sounds in the ballpark for one, but not nearly enough for both.
 
bstratt said:
Thanks Dave, that did help. I wasn't even aware it was a twin!
Click to expand...

Yeah, the 421 B is a pressurized cabin class twin, the largest Cessna made with recips, Cont GTSIO 520s. From the sounds of it you are buying the paper on the plane and not the plane itself. $286,000 is a realistic figure for this plane. $37,000 is the real cost to overhaul one side, not both. The B model has the straight legs and bladder tanks with the tip tanks, while the C is a wet wing with no tips and trailing link gear. Mexico bothers me though as even with an N tail, when the plane is down there, depending on who the guy has paid off, you may have a good deal of trouble securing your collateral. You've got a good bit of homework to do on this one since there are some rather expensive ADs on that plane and they require a good bit of maint and a pilot with a gentle hand on the throttles to make TBO. If they try to tell you that they did both sides Major for $37k because it's cheaper in Mexico, this should raise an immediate red flag with you since it is NOT cheaper to do it in Mexico, it is typically more expensive. As far as quality of work in Mexico, as long as it's a quality shop, I have no particular issues, I've seen plenty of fine work come out of there. I've seen plenty of crap as well, but the stats are about the same as anywhere. My main concern would be first securing the quality and condition of the aircraft, and then being able to secure the collateral. If you need some help, e-mail me, wouldn't be the first plane I repo'ed.
 
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Barry, what Henning said...

...and if you begin to believe you may need to reposess the aircraft do not let the debtor know you have given up on negotiations. Collateral can hide very well in Mexico and Central America. Getting it, and flying it out, is often a matter of paying offthe same folks, with a better deal.
 
SCCutler said:
Barry, what Henning said...

...and if you begin to believe you may need to reposess the aircraft do not let the debtor know you have given up on negotiations. Collateral can hide very well in Mexico and Central America. Getting it, and flying it out, is often a matter of paying offthe same folks, with a better deal.
Click to expand...

The method I've always used is to call them up and go "Hi, I'm an appraisor with the XXX finance company. The last thing we need to do to get your paperwork through is to go see the aircraft/boat and do a current appraisal, from the numbers I see here, we shouldn't have any problems getting you done, If you let me know where I can see it, I should have this knocked by the end of next week." I am under no duty to inform them of the repossession, all I need is the order signed by the financier.
 
Plane has been found at an airport 100 miles outside of Guadalajara. We have engaged The Recovery Group out of Louisville, KY, to go get it.

Question - obviously the logs will not be in the plane and so we won't have those. How much will that bring down the value? It is also out of annual (last done Nov/04) but I presume I'll wait to get that done by the eventual purchaser.

They were going to bring it to DPA but I was wondering if I'd be better having it delivered to a Cessna dealer somewhere. What do you think?
 
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