kgruber
Final Approach
If you are going to monitor any frequency in flight, make it 121.5.
A while ago there was a NOTAM to do just that.
A while ago there was a NOTAM to do just that.
Help with Cockpit Management for Lost and Diversion Procedures
- Thread starter eetrojan
- Start date
dans2992
En-Route
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2013
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- 3,906
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Dans2992
Of course I plan for the wind's impact on flight time, but I do not waste my time calculating beforehand whether I should be on heading 102 vs 103 when enroute. What the hell is the point of that unless you have NO RNAV whatsoever?
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
Checking back in, here’s a bit of an update.
I completed my XC training flight that included a flight to Big Bear (L35), followed by a planned flight to another airport and, on the way, a simulated lost-diversion exercise. My flight to Big Bear went well. I readily found the checkpoints on my navlog, my recorded ATAs were pretty close to my pre-planned ETAs, etc. The overhead circle followed by a full left-traffic landing went well. It was really interesting to see how much longer it took to climb out at a DA of 9,000 ft. I planned to fly west bound at 8,500, and our little plane really struggled to get from 8,300 to 8,500. It was a good experience, and the scenery was beautiful.
However, my lost-diversion exercise was as tough as I thought it would be. My instructor hooded me up while I was in the canyon, flying south out of the mountains, and then gave me my eyes after making me fly around in the valley with the hood on. After that, I figured out where I was, and where I needed to go. When I finally had a magnetic heading to Riverside (RAL), which I have never flown to before, I had to make sure I threaded the needle between the Ontario and March charlies (I used the two 4-way intersection as reference points), get the ATIS at RAL, call tower, and stay below the charlie shelf that sits over RAL at 2700. I also had to get the tower controller to understand that I wanted to circle overhead at 2500 to prepare for a full-traffic landing on runway 27 rather than cross-over the runway and turn directly to downwind. She seemed a bit grumpy.
During the circling part of my lost-diversion exercise, I had a heck of a time maintaining altitude +/- 200 while drawing the VOR lines, drawing a course line from the intersection to my diversion airport, measuring the distance, and calculating my ETE.
This was all made worse by my first big mistake which was choosing to circle over a ground reference that was next to the mountain, rather than farther away where my instructor had helpfully removed my hood in the first place – that initial choice made for a pretty bumpy ride. I think I went around about 5 times and my altitude variation was way outside the +/- 200 pass/fail requirement, swinging from about 4600 to about 5300.
All in all, it was pretty frustrating. And, my circling evidently needs a little work too:
This was by far the toughest exercise I’ve done so far. I definitely need some more practice.
I completed my XC training flight that included a flight to Big Bear (L35), followed by a planned flight to another airport and, on the way, a simulated lost-diversion exercise. My flight to Big Bear went well. I readily found the checkpoints on my navlog, my recorded ATAs were pretty close to my pre-planned ETAs, etc. The overhead circle followed by a full left-traffic landing went well. It was really interesting to see how much longer it took to climb out at a DA of 9,000 ft. I planned to fly west bound at 8,500, and our little plane really struggled to get from 8,300 to 8,500. It was a good experience, and the scenery was beautiful.
However, my lost-diversion exercise was as tough as I thought it would be. My instructor hooded me up while I was in the canyon, flying south out of the mountains, and then gave me my eyes after making me fly around in the valley with the hood on. After that, I figured out where I was, and where I needed to go. When I finally had a magnetic heading to Riverside (RAL), which I have never flown to before, I had to make sure I threaded the needle between the Ontario and March charlies (I used the two 4-way intersection as reference points), get the ATIS at RAL, call tower, and stay below the charlie shelf that sits over RAL at 2700. I also had to get the tower controller to understand that I wanted to circle overhead at 2500 to prepare for a full-traffic landing on runway 27 rather than cross-over the runway and turn directly to downwind. She seemed a bit grumpy.
During the circling part of my lost-diversion exercise, I had a heck of a time maintaining altitude +/- 200 while drawing the VOR lines, drawing a course line from the intersection to my diversion airport, measuring the distance, and calculating my ETE.
This was all made worse by my first big mistake which was choosing to circle over a ground reference that was next to the mountain, rather than farther away where my instructor had helpfully removed my hood in the first place – that initial choice made for a pretty bumpy ride. I think I went around about 5 times and my altitude variation was way outside the +/- 200 pass/fail requirement, swinging from about 4600 to about 5300.
All in all, it was pretty frustrating. And, my circling evidently needs a little work too:
This was by far the toughest exercise I’ve done so far. I definitely need some more practice.
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comanchepilot
En-Route
I did. Thanks. Sometimes tablet autocorrect catches you before you catch it.
comanchepilot
En-Route
Eetrojan, trim is your friend here. Airplane Should get some trim to help you maintain your altitude if you are in a turn for an extended period of time.
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
Hi comanchepilot, I use elevator trim, but she's still not very stable for me and I seem to move the control stick around, and keep my head inside too long, while I'm fumbling around with the charts. I also have aileron trim, but I never use it. Would aileron trim be of any help?
comanchepilot
En-Route
No. What will help is flying the airplane like you are holding an egg against the yoke. Not a hard boiled one. This is finesse, you don't need to manhandle the airplane. What you're probably seeing are a mild PIO.
Just because you are trying to find out where you are through crossing radials does not mean you should be chasing your tail and turning all the time either. The place where you were making those circles is a pretty dangerous place to be wandering about when you don't do where you are, so maybe you should get a vector out over The basin, such as a 260 heading, and then figure out where you are from there. Remember you don't just have to use VOR, but DME and ILS and all the other things things you have going on in the cockpit, including ADF tuned to KFI on mount Wilson.
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eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
I love that suggestion. My instructor sometimes reminds me that my death grip is not conducive to good trim.
Unfortunately, per our syllabus I presume, I am specifically required to use two VORs for my stage check. It's kind of a pain because my HSI will only "fully" tune in one VOR at a time. I confirmed that I could simultaneously track a second VOR that is tuned in on the standby channel with a second RMI needle, but it doesn't include an ID confirmation for standby, only for the primary, and they explicitly want me to ID. In this plane, ID requires that I wait for the three letter designator to show on the display. It takes longer than it would if I could just listen to the morse.
Thanks for your help.
JHW
En-Route
There aren't very places without some nearby airports. He doesn't have to know what they are, just get someone who will answer the radio.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Sounds like a school that lacks common sense when it comes to instruction. Different planes require different approaches.
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
It might be a little bit of a misfit based on the presence of two separate VORs in other planes, but other than the GPS, the only navigation equipment in this plane is the HSI. I think their goal is to teach me to keep the plane flying in a stable circle while efficiently going through all of the diversion steps. I'll figure it out, and be more flexible later on.