Jeanie
Pattern Altitude
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Pattern Altitude
Jeanie, it's an engine upgrade.
Just remember everyone - if 613WD goes kablooie (or missing) this weekend, someone else would have to make a super dumb post so that they can take over the honorific (as per my sigline).
Just remember everyone - if 613WD goes kablooie (or missing) this weekend, someone else would have to make a super dumb post so that they can take over the honorific (as per my sigline).
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Pattern Altitude
Just called in and got my briefing... it's a go! nice to actually GET to fly as opposed to the last two attempted getaways/flying-weekends when I had to make a no-go decision due to weather.
cirrusmx
Line Up and Wait
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campoalavista
FILE IFR DIRECT AND AS HIGH YOU CAN GO TAKING INTO ACCOUNT WINDS.
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Pattern Altitude
In the hotel in Santa Fe right now, figured I'd report.
Was an easy, smooth and gorgeous flight for the most part. Ended up skipping the fuel stop, because it simply was not needed. That took me by surprise, but we landed in KSAF with over 13 useale gallons left in the wings.
Overall flight of a few over 790nm took just over 5 and a half hours and ate up just over 64 gallons, spent mostly at 11,500 feet. The numbers surprised me too - we were basically doing over 140kn while burning ~11.5 gph, with little wind to speak of when averaged along the route. One stretch, no issues. Nice, solid aircraft - what a way to celebrate a purchase, eh?
I had never taken such a long trip before, though, and by the time we got here I was tired but didn't realize it. So when given clearance to join downwind on runway 2 I instead made a lazy circling entry to downwind on 20. Thankfully the controller gently steered me the right way. I must have sounded like an absolute buffoon. It only hit me after we touched down - I suddenly felt like I was about to drop. Odd sensation, it was very sudden.
Then I made the mistake of going for self serve fuel. Normally that's the frugal option. In 10 degree weather it's suicidal... By the time I was done I couldn't feel my fingers at all. It did wake me up though. I hopped back in and started the engine only to realize I forgot to push the plane back from the pump. If ever there was a time when pushing a plane felt absolutely miserable, that was it.
The FBO folks at Santa Fe aviation were really nice, and quickly got us squared away with a shuttle and everything else. I left the plane on tie down for the first night, but they are moving it into the hangar this evening so it will be easy to leave tomorrow. I felt the extra $90 were worth it, I'm not used to cold weather, so maybe that was silly.
Was an easy, smooth and gorgeous flight for the most part. Ended up skipping the fuel stop, because it simply was not needed. That took me by surprise, but we landed in KSAF with over 13 useale gallons left in the wings.
Overall flight of a few over 790nm took just over 5 and a half hours and ate up just over 64 gallons, spent mostly at 11,500 feet. The numbers surprised me too - we were basically doing over 140kn while burning ~11.5 gph, with little wind to speak of when averaged along the route. One stretch, no issues. Nice, solid aircraft - what a way to celebrate a purchase, eh?
I had never taken such a long trip before, though, and by the time we got here I was tired but didn't realize it. So when given clearance to join downwind on runway 2 I instead made a lazy circling entry to downwind on 20. Thankfully the controller gently steered me the right way. I must have sounded like an absolute buffoon. It only hit me after we touched down - I suddenly felt like I was about to drop. Odd sensation, it was very sudden.
Then I made the mistake of going for self serve fuel. Normally that's the frugal option. In 10 degree weather it's suicidal... By the time I was done I couldn't feel my fingers at all. It did wake me up though. I hopped back in and started the engine only to realize I forgot to push the plane back from the pump. If ever there was a time when pushing a plane felt absolutely miserable, that was it.
The FBO folks at Santa Fe aviation were really nice, and quickly got us squared away with a shuttle and everything else. I left the plane on tie down for the first night, but they are moving it into the hangar this evening so it will be easy to leave tomorrow. I felt the extra $90 were worth it, I'm not used to cold weather, so maybe that was silly.
Sounds like fun....
,,
Hope the weather that is coming into California now won't haunt you on the return trip..
Be cafeful...
,,Hope the weather that is coming into California now won't haunt you on the return trip..
Be cafeful...
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Pattern Altitude
Sounds like fun....
Hope the weather that is coming into California now won't haunt you on the return trip..
Be cafeful...
Yessir. Doesn't look awfully bad though - we should be back in daytime and for all I can tell, there is a very small chance of having to utilize svfr to get into kccr (which I have done many times before and am comfortable with). My only concern is the sierras but it looks like at worst we will be between two scattered layers, and even that is unlikely. I can handle that easily in daytime. And if it looks really bad tomorrow I do have backup flights booked on southwest.
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..
You are a SMART pilot sir..
..We don't need a new thread on Monday morning titled " Anyone seen Onwards"
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BillTIZ
Final Approach
Glad you had a great trip!
Going with no fuel stop eastbound, does not mean you can make it non stop westbound.
Winds aloft forecast over LAS today was 9900 all the way to 12,000. Don't plan on that going back, weather moving into the LAS valley late on Sunday, 20% chance of precip, but snow level down to 3500.
How did you handle the restricted areas and MOAs north of LAS?
Going with no fuel stop eastbound, does not mean you can make it non stop westbound.
Winds aloft forecast over LAS today was 9900 all the way to 12,000. Don't plan on that going back, weather moving into the LAS valley late on Sunday, 20% chance of precip, but snow level down to 3500.
How did you handle the restricted areas and MOAs north of LAS?
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Understood. I am planning a stop at ktph anyway - just so I can assess conditions before crossing the mountains, refuel, and stretch my legs. Not going to skip that one.
Nellis warned me off the restricteds but I just went around them and through the MOAs.
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Actually, good question. I don't know but I did try to stay hydrated through the flight. Then again I drank a lot of water afterwards.
Edit: I think unfamiliarity with the airport had something to do with it; KSAF is interesting first time around and there were four other planes approaching.
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wabower
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Wayne
The fatigue lesson you learned on your first trip is incredibly valuable, and I'm glad that you experienced the sensation so vividly so you'll know that it can and will happen again, although hopefully not as dramatically as you gain confidence and experience. The feeling of relief and relaxation from finally being able to release all of the energy and tension that you accumulated while planning and executing the flight is difficult to describe until you feel it, and instructive as to what would likely occur if you refueled and immediately took off for Kansas City. ZZZZZzzzz
..My first thought after reading Onwards post and his comments on the SS fueling area was...... He wished he had reverse so he could put the prop in Beta and back away from the pumps..:wink2:
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Pattern Altitude
Not sure i get the Kansas City reference... But otherwise, yeah. One of the results is that I have set a new personal minimum - or is it maximum? - no more than 4 hours at a stretch at anything above 7500ft. As I fly more ill update it but after yesterday it seems prudent.
Alexb2000
En-Route
I fly 4.5 hour legs in the low teens all the time. Just like anything you have to work out the right techniques for you. Get a pulse oximeter and monitor your saturation, an absolute must IMO. Take a Tide bottle and cut out the spout inside of the threads, put it behind your seat. Drink water, if you get uncomfortable, reach for the Tide bottle, just don't dehydrate. When you start your decent, take a few minutes of O2 when tired. That will help sharpen up the brain when its time to go to work.
I'll be listening for you tomorrow on 132.8, I'm headed out from Taos about 0830.
Fly safe.
wabower
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Wayne
KC reference was for what you might do next time, which is pit stop and go. About 15 minutes after takeoff the fatigue will set in and your mind will turn to mush. Just good to know it happens and how to avoid it.
Tony_Scarpelli
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Tony_Scarpelli
Now that you have done it, maybe this makes more sense.
Tony_Scarpelli
Pattern Altitude
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Pattern Altitude
Alright.
Ended up putting 7.4 hours on the Hobbs today, tackling many new things. Mainly, I am deeply impressed by the capabilities of my new plane - it performed superbly throughout.
We took off from Santa Fe around noon. I looked at the weather and it looked like we should be able to cross the mountains in the afternoon. The first leg went well enough, and we landed roughly four hours later in Tonnopah (KTPH). Picked up a bit of carb ice on the way, my first real experience with it, but it was easily dispatched with the carb heat. Nice to have the engine monitor, allowed for a quick diagnosis. I wouldn't have expected it because the air was clear and not terribly cold (20deg or so). I ended up putting on the pitot heat for good measure.
Thankfully, the FBO at TPH was open, and we got refueled, used the facilities, stretched our legs, and checked the iPad for a briefing on crossing the Sierras. It was another new experience, landing on a snowed runway - I used soft field technique and it worked well.
Anyway, the trip seemed possible, reporting MVFR 5sm visibility and a couple of SCT layers, but we had to get moving. The sun was going down and I'd be damned if I try crossing at night even with a completely clear sky. So we hopped in, started the engine, and... the plane wouldn't move.
Turned out the nose wheel was against a little snow pile. What do I know? pushed the plane back, tried again, managed to get moving. The real fun was about to start.
We got out heading in a south westerly direction, climbing the whole time. I wanted to gain as much altitude as possible. As we were climbing, it became apparent that I had two halves of the sky - on the North, the mountains were completely obscured and clouded in. Full IFR (well, maybe not, but from my perspective it was). That was obviously a no go.
The south looked nice enough though - clear sky and I could see a gorgeous sunset past the peaks. So I started flying south, still climbing, essentially flying in route that was closing in on at a shallow angle on the eastern slope of the Sierras looking for when the wall of clouds over them would break into the clear sky right ahead.
It looked like the clouds were chasing me down south over the mountain peaks. At some point it felt like a race with neither of us gaining much ground. Yes, I know it was an illusion because of the angle I was flying to the mountains, but it was fascinating. in the meantime, we hit 14,000 feet and put on the oxygen - another new experience. Worked very well in keeping me fresh - we ended up staying on it for 45 minutes or so.
By this time I had been asked three times by seemingly exasperated controllers in OAK, LA and finally Joshua if I knew where I was going, since I told them I wanted to go to Concord and I was flying more or less directly south. I told each of them the same thing - I'll keep going south until I cross over, or at some point just go around the Sierras entirely if I had to. Good thing we refueled, because at those altitudes, we were burning about 9 gph, and I could fly a long time on that.
But what I did not want to do is cross over after sunset. So it did become a sort of race in a sense, flying by the slope hoping to make it while looking for alternates if it was going to get dark first.
Did I mention the overcast layer underneath? that was tunnel vision. At some point I suddenly realized that the scattered layer where I could see the ground became one single sheet. I was focused on the mountains, and on the GPS looking for alternates, and on the sun, and on this on and on that, I forgot to look down. That was one moment where I became kinda nervous. Thankfully, 5 minutes later the bottom broke and I had two airpots in sight (2o7 and o26).
But I didn't need them anymore, because the Sierras were finally crossable. Of course it had to be over Mt. Whitney - one of the highest peaks - but you could see the ridges, and the clear, beautiful skyline behind with the sun a bright red. And did I care about how high Mt. Whitney was? not at all, for we were cruising at 16,200 feet at that point.
Boy do I love that P-Ponk engine. It still had more life in it, even though I had the carb heat on, and I could have squeezed another few hundred feet if I needed them. That was the highest I had ever gone, by over two thousand.
The rest of the trip consisted of a routine night flight back home, as it became dark about 20 minutes after we crossed.
Ended up putting 7.4 hours on the Hobbs today, tackling many new things. Mainly, I am deeply impressed by the capabilities of my new plane - it performed superbly throughout.
We took off from Santa Fe around noon. I looked at the weather and it looked like we should be able to cross the mountains in the afternoon. The first leg went well enough, and we landed roughly four hours later in Tonnopah (KTPH). Picked up a bit of carb ice on the way, my first real experience with it, but it was easily dispatched with the carb heat. Nice to have the engine monitor, allowed for a quick diagnosis. I wouldn't have expected it because the air was clear and not terribly cold (20deg or so). I ended up putting on the pitot heat for good measure.
Thankfully, the FBO at TPH was open, and we got refueled, used the facilities, stretched our legs, and checked the iPad for a briefing on crossing the Sierras. It was another new experience, landing on a snowed runway - I used soft field technique and it worked well.
Anyway, the trip seemed possible, reporting MVFR 5sm visibility and a couple of SCT layers, but we had to get moving. The sun was going down and I'd be damned if I try crossing at night even with a completely clear sky. So we hopped in, started the engine, and... the plane wouldn't move.
Turned out the nose wheel was against a little snow pile. What do I know? pushed the plane back, tried again, managed to get moving. The real fun was about to start.
We got out heading in a south westerly direction, climbing the whole time. I wanted to gain as much altitude as possible. As we were climbing, it became apparent that I had two halves of the sky - on the North, the mountains were completely obscured and clouded in. Full IFR (well, maybe not, but from my perspective it was). That was obviously a no go.
The south looked nice enough though - clear sky and I could see a gorgeous sunset past the peaks. So I started flying south, still climbing, essentially flying in route that was closing in on at a shallow angle on the eastern slope of the Sierras looking for when the wall of clouds over them would break into the clear sky right ahead.
It looked like the clouds were chasing me down south over the mountain peaks. At some point it felt like a race with neither of us gaining much ground. Yes, I know it was an illusion because of the angle I was flying to the mountains, but it was fascinating. in the meantime, we hit 14,000 feet and put on the oxygen - another new experience. Worked very well in keeping me fresh - we ended up staying on it for 45 minutes or so.
By this time I had been asked three times by seemingly exasperated controllers in OAK, LA and finally Joshua if I knew where I was going, since I told them I wanted to go to Concord and I was flying more or less directly south. I told each of them the same thing - I'll keep going south until I cross over, or at some point just go around the Sierras entirely if I had to. Good thing we refueled, because at those altitudes, we were burning about 9 gph, and I could fly a long time on that.
But what I did not want to do is cross over after sunset. So it did become a sort of race in a sense, flying by the slope hoping to make it while looking for alternates if it was going to get dark first.
Did I mention the overcast layer underneath? that was tunnel vision. At some point I suddenly realized that the scattered layer where I could see the ground became one single sheet. I was focused on the mountains, and on the GPS looking for alternates, and on the sun, and on this on and on that, I forgot to look down. That was one moment where I became kinda nervous. Thankfully, 5 minutes later the bottom broke and I had two airpots in sight (2o7 and o26).
But I didn't need them anymore, because the Sierras were finally crossable. Of course it had to be over Mt. Whitney - one of the highest peaks - but you could see the ridges, and the clear, beautiful skyline behind with the sun a bright red. And did I care about how high Mt. Whitney was? not at all, for we were cruising at 16,200 feet at that point.
Boy do I love that P-Ponk engine. It still had more life in it, even though I had the carb heat on, and I could have squeezed another few hundred feet if I needed them. That was the highest I had ever gone, by over two thousand.
The rest of the trip consisted of a routine night flight back home, as it became dark about 20 minutes after we crossed.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
It's hard to beat a 182 for all-around capability, and it's a nice comfortable traveling bird that will get you out of the nest and teach you a lot, as you discovered over the weekend.
20 degrees, in the dry southwest, carb ice? How did you make that diagnosis? I wouldn't expect it in those conditions. Does your engine monitor have carb temp on it? What happened when you pulled the carb heat?
The main thing to do on a snowy/icy runway is to stay the heck off the brakes! You'll skid pretty easily. In addition, if you use the brakes, snow can get up in them and freeze the pads to the discs, and then you're not gonna go anywhere... But if you use brakes when taxiing out for takeoff, you may end up with your wheels freezing after takeoff, which means you'll be landing with 'em locked up if your destination is still below freezing - Not good for tires!
Were you climbing, descending, or level?
I bet you could squeeze more than that out of it - I've had our 182 to 17,500 and we don't have the P-Ponk engine.
Why did you leave the carb heat on?
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Remember it - And make sure you set yourself some personal minimums in that area. I prefer not to fly more than 9 hours in a day, because after that the fatigue really starts to add up quickly, and that's when mistakes happen. Fatigue kills.
Not at all - When it's that cold out, you need to get your engine warmed up. Having it in a heated hangar means the gyros and the pilot will be in better shape as well!
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Pattern Altitude
After a little bit the engine smoothed out and all cylinders went back to normal egt and cht. More tellingly, when I tried turning it off, after a bit the roughness came back.
Good tips there. Yes, I stayed off the brakes until we slowed down significantly, and even then used them gingerly. It worked well!
I had leveled off just before crossing. I could still climb but didn't see the point.
That's impressive. Well, for me 16.2k is a personal high
you're probably right, it didn't feel like the engine was tapped out, even with carb heat on. Because when I tried taking it off it seemed like ice was rebuilding - I think what happened was that the melted ice became water and refroze or something like that. Cylinder 1 almost disappeared off the engine monitor, but everything went right back to normal after I turned it on again and left it on. I finally took it off at 6500ft when it felt like power was fully back, and indeed there were no more issues.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
How long is "a little bit" and "a bit"? When you turned carb heat on, did the engine smooth right out, or did it get rougher? When you turned carb heat off, how long did it take for the symptoms to return? What happened to your manifold pressure when you added carb heat? Do you remember what the OAT was at altitude?
Well... The point is FAR 91.159. Many pilots think you can do whatever you want when VFR, but that's not true... And 16,200 is closer to an IFR altitude than a VFR one.
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Pattern Altitude
I don't know that I remember to the level of detail you are asking... seems like it was 30-60 seconds or so on each end. MP went down (obviously).
3000 AGL trumps even+500. We went back to the latter after we crossed. And I don't think the plane would have gone to class Alpha airspace even if I tried
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
I guess what I'm saying is, it doesn't necessarily sound like carb ice to me - Sounds like it may have actually been a mixture problem. It's important to know the difference, because it's possible to *create* carb ice with carb heat as well, especially in the conditions you were likely experiencing. And if you create conditions conducive to carb ice by using carb heat, you no longer have any way to get rid of that carb ice.
alaskaflyer
Final Approach
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Alaskaflyer
Having flown in the cold for a while now in an airplane that loves to experience carb ice, I thought it was unusual too. Never experienced it colder than 30F. Not impossible at those temps but certainly unusual. Be curious what the dewpoint was but at altitude you'll probably never know.
On the other hand not nearly cold enough for mixture problems unless the carb was already having problems.
On the other hand not nearly cold enough for mixture problems unless the carb was already having problems.
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flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
You can have mixture problems at any temp - I was thinking that maybe it wasn't leaned correctly for whatever reason, and the carb heat put it closer to where it should have been and increased power.
Well... Let's take a look at what we've got:
I'm guessing the 20 degrees was OAT at altitude (Onwards - can you verify?). METAR at the time was:
KSAF 061853Z 02011KT 10SM CLR M02/M14 A3029 RMK AO2 SLP292 T10221139
-2.2º C = 28º F temp
-13.9º C = 7º F dewpoint
Those conditions put us on the 40% RH line, well clear of the icing danger range.
I tried to get a Skew-T but apparently they don't keep 'em that long.
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denverpilot
Tied Down
This is insidious, but you have to experience it first to know why. I've learned that I need to be really alert and work on flexing muscles and getting heart rate back up after four hours to be on my A-game for the arrival. I often just make the fuel stop anyway at 3.5 hours, just to get out and walk around a bit, even if I don't need gas. Also a good time to drink water.
Sounds like a great trip so far!